Real Estate Podcast

Episode 103: Land Flipping with Jack Bosch

brrrr method david dodge discount property investor michael slane podcast real estate 101 real estate coaching real estate investing real estate investor real estate tips wholesaling wholesaling real estate Sep 22, 2022

Show Notes

Welcome to the Discount Property Investor Podcast.

Jack Bosch with Orbit Investments, LLC

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Episode Transcripts

David: Alright guys, welcome back to the Discount Property Investor podcast. This is your host David Dodge, joined by my co-host Mr. Michael Slane.

Mike: Hey everybody, welcome back.

David: Hey guys welcome back. So today we are going to be talking about flipping land and vacant lots, and also a lot of really cool strategies. So we have a special guest on the episode today, introducing Mr Jack Bosch. Hey Jack, how are you, man?

Jack: I am doing fantastic, how about yourself?

David: We're doing good, man, we are doing really good. So we just left a couple of appointments this morning that Mike and I went around and looked at, we made a couple of offers already today. I think Mike actually made 28 offers today.

Mike: That's a lot.

David: Luckily it was to one seller, but on 28 houses.  We are having a great day. Jack, we are happy to have you on the show today. We don't do a whole lot of what you do. So we are always looking to learn new things, teach our audience and viewers new things. So this is going to be a really great episode, we are really excited to start-- or learn some of the things that you're doing. Give our audience a quick intro of Jack. Jack has been investing in real estate and correct me if I'm wrong here, Jack, since 2002 with his wife Michelle. They have been buying and selling lots on unimproved land. Jack has flipped probably more than 4000 transactions at this point, which is just awesome, holy cow! Jack went from having a zero net worth to over a million, and he is well above that now, but it only took him 18 months. So Jack is going to tell us some really cool strategies about what he does in his real estate business. He is also and author. Mike and I wrote a book, 'The ultimate guide to wholesaling real estate'. Jack has one called 'Forever cash life', and it's about financial literacy, which I absolutely love. So Jack, enough of me babbling, I am sure Mike is ready for me to shut the hell up too here.

Mike: Yeah let's get to the guest.

David: Let's get to the meat and potatoes. So Jack, tell us what are you working on right now? What kind of deals are you doing?

Jack: I'm working on the same thing I've been working on since we started this, we are land flippers. So what we do is-- we do basically what you guys do, it's not that different except we don't deal with the houses, because there is just the added complexity factor to it that we just don't want to deal with. Nothing wrong with houses, we own a portfolio of houses, we own a portfolio of apartment complexes, but we make our money flipping land-- similar how to you guys flip houses, just that there is no house on it. Basically-- so with that comes with it a few distinct differences. One of them is that land itself is something that if you just hold onto it-- it costs you money.

David: It's a liability.

Jack: -- you rent it, it makes you money.

David: Right, right.

Jack: So therefore there are a lot of people in the house world-- in the land world I'm sorry, in the land world that have held the property for 10, 20, 30 years. They are getting older, their life changes, or they have inherited the properties. All these properties do is sit there and assume property taxes, and if they are not already growing in value, they are perhaps stagnant in value [00:04:33.22 - inaudible] sellers. They don't really care for them, and because it costs them money every year, they are willing to sell them at steep discounts. Literally we buy properties for 5-25 cents on the dollar, then we turn around and sell them at either half price at like wholesale, or what we do is go sell these properties with a cash flow strategy, meaning we are selling them with owner financing, owner carry back, right? We allow the people to [00:04:47.28 - inaudible] a property, let's say a $30,000 piece of land, like on the outskirts of town, or a small [00:04:54.00 - inaudible] or so, they re pick up for $4,000 as it's like 15 cents on the dollar, we turn around and sell it to somebody for $30,000. Let's say a 20% down payment, $6,000 down payment, then $500 a month for the next 8 or 10 years.

David: Wow.

Jack: So, what that does is-- if we pay four for them, we get $6,000 as a down payment, we [00:05:24.06 - inaudible] get more than we paid for the property, and it allows us to pay closing costs and still have some left over, and now we get $500 a month, which is about the same as my rental properties make, just without any tenants, toilets, termites, trash and all this kind of stuff.

David: Wow, that's awesome. So I would imagine that this strategy only works when you are buying at discount, right? We are the Discount Property Investors, we are on the Discount Property Investor podcast here. All things in real estate that Mike and I do, and it sounds like Jack here too; most real estate investors-- it all starts when you buy. You have to buy your properties right, if you are not buying at a discount--.

Jack: Right.

David: -- you are probably not going to be able to make much money if any on it. So Mike and I love the saying, 'You make your money when you buy, you get paid when you sell'. But the money is actually made when you buy it. So Jack this is really really cool. I love the fact--.

Jack: I 100% agree with you.

David: Yeah, very cool. I love the fact that you are flipping these properties, these pieces of land-- but you mentioned that you also have rentals, both single family and some multi-family doors as well. What's the strategy there? Why are you doing all these different things?

Jack: Well actually the book that I wrote, I have a copy here and it's called 'Forever cash'. That book is actually not a book about our real estate method. It's a book about a financial philosophy. In our financial philosophy, everything we ultimately do is designed to provide lifetime and generational cash flow. So really in essence we are cash flow investors. Discount investors but with a cash flow outlook. So when we by-- this is why we came up with seller financing strategy on the land flipping which provides cash flow. We built it up to over $70,000 a month in cash flow, pure profit coming into the bank account every month.  If you have that kind of money coming in, what do you do with it? Well you can buy a Ferrari, and you can buy all this kind of stuff, but that's not my style. I am-- what we started doing when we reached that point, we started buying other cash flow assets. So basically in essence we make our money land flipping, but we park out money and keep our money in cash flow real estate.

So the reason we buy single families, and the reason we buy apartment complexes is that what we call our asset allocation strategy, right? Our making money strategy is land flipping-- what to do with our money is park it, and we have it produce nice 10,15,20% a year returns in the single family and multi family kind of area, which means if we ever stop flipping land, which I can't see any time soon, but if we ever stop flipping land, we then-- can put our feet up for the rest of our lives. Our daughter is financially taken care of, her kids are financially taken care of. We are building and eight and nine figure cash flow empire funded by the land flipping here.

David: Wow, yeah wow is right.

Mike: I like how he skipped over the 7 figure, 8 and 9.

David: Yeah 8 and 9. So you are already bringing in over $50,000 a month, you mentioned about $70,000 a month in cash flow passive income, is that correct?

Jack: That is from the land flipping side. Our house and other flipping are bringing in another nice 5 figures-- 5 figures a month income too.

David: Wow, that is just phenomenal. That is phenomenal.

Mike: Yeah really cool. What do you want to talk about today, Jack? I would like to learn more about the land flipping.

David: Me too.

Jack: Whatever you guys want to talk about. The land flipping is really the source of this entire machine. I believe in order to be financially successful, there is two ways. One is like the Dave Ramsey way I love Dave Ramsey but-- his intentions are really good, but I don't feel like becoming financially debt free and independent by eating peanut butter and jelly everyday. Our strategy is an expansionary strategy. Instead of save your way to financial freedom. It's like-- build your best you, build-- live up to your potential. There is so much unfulfilled potential in this world, people live way below what they could be living it. That's what we're going for. So it's an expansionary strategy, something that you learn. Within that it's a fairly simple strategy. Of course there is work involved. But because there is no houses involved, you guys have to look at a house and estimate repairs and things like that just to know what to price it at. We don't have to do that, right? We have to do-- and there is nothing wrong with that,  it's just an extra step that you guys do that we don't have to do. So as a result when flipping land, you can do this completely remotely. I mean I haven't looked at a single piece of land in the last 12 years.

David: You mean like in person?

Jack: Of course we look at Google maps, Google earth, Google street view. But it's land, what is the difference between the land this year and last year except the trees have grown. There is nothing you have to look at in person. We actually have a lot of our buyers that buy just based on looking at Google maps and Google earth. So this entire system has become a virtual system. Our team doing this is completely virtual. We have VA's in the Philippines, we have somebody in Florida that helps us with the deals, we have somebody in Phoenix that we only need like once a month. So the entire team is completely virtual, and now we actually [00:11:00.05 - inaudible] for the past 10 or 11 years how to do this, but-- its-- in essence what we are looking for as you mentioned earlier, we are looking for properties that are between $10 and 100,000. Those are our sweet spots. We are not going after the multi million down town next to the ball park, right? We are looking for the deal where you can put a [00:11:22.22 - inaudible] and it's like this expensive process, that's not our game. We are doing wholesaling, flipping, seller financing, quick flips. Our preferred holding time is zero, whether we do assignments, double closes. The same thing you guys do except without the house on it, and because we are dealing with land, the discounts are steeper.

David: Right.

Jack: As a matter of fact, we actually don't look for the motivated seller, we are looking for non wanter, which is a completely different level of--.

David: We are going to break off on that topic just for a second. You say you are not looking for the motivated seller, so how do you find deals? Mike and I when we are flipping houses, either the motivated-- well the motivated seller is obviously very important, but basically we can break the motivated seller down into two categories; either them them self are distressed, or the property is distressed. If you get both of those, then it is great in terms of us being able to get a deal. But it sounds to me like you are not even necessarily looking for motivation necessarily. So do you mind elaborating a little bit on how you are seeking these people out?

Jack: Absolutely. We have found that our typical seller is someone in the 50's, 60's, 70 years old, or it is someone who just inherited the property. In this case they are also in their 40's, 50's, 60's and so on. They are-- they are either-- if they inherit it they have the property usually anywhere between one and like three years. Not for them to feel the pain of paying property taxes. If they hold the property for long term, it is usually somebody that is actually not distressed, and the property is not distressed. It is often somebody that is in the situation of like-- you know I have been owning this thing for 30 years, I don't really want to have it anymore. They talk to the kids and the kids are like, I don't want it either. There is nothing wrong with the property, but they just want it, they are like, I don't want a piece of land. If you have a rental house I will take it, but I don't want a piece of land.

David: Right.

Jack: And so they are like, okay whatever. They are just giving it up. So when I say we are not looking for the motivated sellers, we are looking for the non wanters, which is the people who are mentally have closed up, closed shop, have this garage sale mentality.

David: Got it. How do you locate those people though?

Jack: How we locate them, we locate them using direct mail. So we get a list from a list service or the county. Once you have honed in, in a county, we often get the county database [00:13:57.09 - inaudible] or entire vacant land list. Then we identify the properties in a certain price range. if we want to we can go after a certain size. We can go after certain-- if the county records tell you how long they have owned it we can use that as a characteristic. The bare minimum it is properties that are worth between $10-100'000, and then we go after out of State owners first, then we sort of go closer. What we find is that [00:14:21.13 - inaudible] point is a substantial amount of people that have owned the property for a bunch of time that just don't want it anymore. As a result, when we send out direct mail, we are getting response rates of anywhere between 5, 15 and 20%. So this is like-- in the house world unheard of.

David: -- that amount on the dollar, okay.

Jack: So you get-- let's--.

David: 15% response, I'm sorry you are talking about the responses on the mail campaign.

Jack: Responses on the direct mail piece, and average of 10% response rate, 8-10% response rate. That basically means-- we don't have to send out 10-20'000 pieces of 50'000 pieces a month. We can send out a thousand pieces and we get a hundred phone calls and we will make a hundred offers that month. Out of those hundred--.

Mike: That's interesting.

David: That's really interesting.

Jack: Out of those hundred offers on average you get three or four deals accepted. So now between two and four deals accepted. So now with a thousand letters that cost 600 bucks, you have two to four deals, let's say on the low side, two deals on average that make you the same $10'000 that typically a wholesaler makes on a deal. On a low end like $2-3'000 on the high end 50,000. So let's say on the low end 5-15, let's say $10'000-- so you spend 600 bucks, and you are making $20'000. I mean on the low end $10'000, that's a no brainer strategy to me, and that is how we were able to grow so quickly from zero to a million dollars--.

David: Jack, where do you reside?

Jack: We live in Phoenix Arizona.

David: My next question is, are you doing deals in your back yard? Or are you guys marketing in random markets across the country?

Jack: When we started we thought we had to go see the property. So every weekend we would jump in the car, [00:16:08.02 - inaudible] and would drive out there in Northern Arizona, Southern Arizona, look at properties, because we like three kinds of markets. We like [00:16:15.11 - inaudible] lots, we like the path of growth, so just the ring around the city where the city is expanding towards, and we like larger acreage in rural areas. So something when-- somebody  could have a ranch, put their RV's on there, bring their friends, bonfires, cabins, hunting, ATV'ing, bowing, shooting, stuff like that. People love those kind of properties.

David: Properties that have like a beach front or river access?

Jack: River yes, beach front not so much, those are usually much more expensive. One of our students got a property with beach front access with access to Lake Michigan, that was up to a million dollars and he got that. That's like one of those treasure cases that don't happen that often, but he got it for 3500 bucks. But that's like a true exception. River front access you do get them. We send-- I forgot the question, but basically send out those letters, you get a response rate, those are the kind of properties. At the beginning we felt like we had to go out there, then we got a deal of 21 properties for $3'000. It was actually 25 properties but the owner owned a bunch of back taxes and four had been lost for back taxes already. So we got 21 of them, and for $3'000 they had an additional $10'000 in back taxes. So we sold two of them for ten grand, paid off the back taxes and now we had 19 properties free and clear. The problem was -- we thought it was a problem. The problem was they [00:18:07.22 - inaudible] from Hawaii to Florida in like seven different States. So that's when we realized, what do we do now? So I jumped on a plane and flew to Florida, I looked at a few, but I didn't go to Indiana, I didn't go to Colorado, I didn't go to California, I didn't go to Utah and all these other properties. We just like, we can't afford time and money wise to fly everywhere. We were like-- let's just see if we can sell them without seeing them. So we took pictures on Google earth and Google maps, and created listings like that and they sold just as fast. Since then we realized there was no need for us to go look at any of the properties. Since then we have done deals in 19 States and in over a hundred counties, a majority of them without ever seeing them.

Mike: That's amazing.

David: That is amazing. How do you market them?

Mike: Yeah that's what I was going to say, how are you finding the buyers for these properties?

Jack: That's the other thing. Early on we started out-- I remember, we started out like 17 years ago. Back then people still had dial up internet lines. You literally had like AOL, You got mail was still a thing. You guys are too young to even remember that.

David: We used AOL, man. We were younger but we used them.

Jack: Okay good. So the thing is, at that point we used to put it on Ebay, we used to put it on the newspaper. People would call us and we would have to put the little paper package in the mail to them, because they didn't even have internet yet, then they would buy it that way. Then we started doing live auctions. In 2008 as the market shifted, and we realized we could continue doing deals, but we could continue doing deals online. At that time people had high speed internet access. Zillow started being around, Facebook was around, Craigslist was around. So we started selling these properties on Craigslist, we started selling them on all these platforms. We have continued doing that till this day. We have [00:20:05.15 - inaudible] several hundred deals that way, we do a hundred deals a year like that. It's our method now. We just flip them and put them on Facebook market place, Craigslist, on Zillow, on Red Fin. On the contract we have with our sellers we have the right to re-market the property. So with that you can even use an MLS service, and put it out on the MLS that spreads it out over the other platforms. We sell them online again, from the comfort of your home.

Mike: Very cool.

David: Love it, man, very cool. Tell us a little bit about-- what makes this more lucrative-- versus flipping houses in your opinion. I am sure there are a lot of different reasons, but what's your favorite reason?

Jack: I don't think it's more lucrative than flipping houses, it is as lucrative as flipping houses. It's just as-- less moving pieces in it. That's really the thing. There is nothing wrong with flipping houses, I've flipped some houses, right? Back when the market came back up and it was like-- hey we have been missing out on this house stuff, let's flip land and flip houses. So we flipped a bunch of houses and we realized it really is more work than we personally want to do. There is nothing wrong with it, we made money with it, but-- 2016 we stopped flipping houses again and refocused on our land flipping because it worked in an up market, down market, side ways market-- and a returning market. To answer your question, the real reason is that first of all you can do it virtually, we don't have to show up, we never have to go meet up with a seller, on the kitchen table-- and make them cry-- I don't know what house flippers do, we got ours different ways.

Mike: That's a very good tip, try not t make them cry, that's no our objective.

Jack: Absolutely not. I kn0w you guys don't do that. There are some people that say, the more you make them cry the better. No. That's not what you want to do. Solve their problems, we are solving someone's problem, so one of the biggest benefits is that we can do this all remotely. We send letters we have a call center to take the phone calls, we have-- we sent the letters-- there is no rush, there is almost no competition in this market. I mean how many house flipper, land flippers do you know? Zero. How many house flippers do you know? A whole bunch right?

David: Right.

Jack: So there is almost no competition, that means we don't have to rush to purchase. We literally sent the seller an offer in snail mail, and give them seven to ten days to accept that offer. Are they going to get another offer from anyone else? No, they haven't gotten an offer in twenty years.

David: I love that. We do something similar. Other times we will send an offer to somebody, and they may have a 60-90 day acceptance period. Why are you limiting the acceptance period? Just to entice them to act?

Jack: Just to entice them to act, yes.

David: Let's say somebody signs it 90 days later and sends it back, you're just going to amend it, right?

Jack: We are still going to accept it of course.  It's more like making them accept it, then we do sometimes follow up with a voice mail, hey we sent you an offer, you haven't accept it, call us. Sometimes they are like, oh I thought it accepted, I thought you were no longer interested. We're interested just send it over. They cross out the day, put the date, initial it too, then accept it. That does happen. But we are doing that.

The biggest reason I think is that-- especially for beginning investors is-- they are a little bit afraid. I am referring to myself when I started out. We had no money, we tried to make houses work, we just couldn't make it work for us. We were afraid of what happens if we are locked into a contract for $70-150'000 house and I don't have that kind of money. Well when we made our first offer on a land piece that was accepted. It was a guy out of State, he didn't care, going through a divorce, we didn't want anything to do with the State of Arizona anymore. He had this piece of land sitting in there that he literally says, you guys can have it. We paid $400 for it and he accepted. $400 is something I think-- even with no money I could afford. Worse case I lose 400 bucks. I am not going to lose 400 bucks because the thing is worth $10'000. Somebody is going to offer me a grand for it, right?

David: Right.

Jack: The neighbor on the spot bought this property for $4000. So my point is-- we made ten times our money. It didn't make us wealthy or change our lives. The point is that when you make a thousand, two thousand or sometimes other offers, it is much more comfortable for the beginning investor, because you know you are not risking your life savings on it.

David: That's a very good point. The cheapest houses Mike and I will buy to keep are 20 or 30 grand. We will buy houses for 500'000, 1500, but those are the ones that are strictly wholesales. I love that philosophy. I would imagine you are probably-- let me ask you this; I've interviewed and talked to a couple of people that have done what you do. They haven't been doing it as long as you. You are definitely by far the most experienced person that I have ever spoken to in this trade. But I have heard from a lot of these other guys, they don't even put a closing date on these contracts. Does yours have a closing date?

Jack: Ours does have a closing date, but the closing date is usually six months out.

David: Love it, very cool. Basically similar.

Jack: Why six months? It's because sometimes title issues occur, right? Sometimes you have to get the thing to probate, you don't want to have to get an extension. Sometimes also you might get yourself overwhelmed with deals. We have guys that are in our program, in our coaching program for example, in the first three months they have gotten 24 deals accepted. It's like, holy cow! They don't even have the [00:26:13.01 - inaudible] to go market them all, right? So they market the first three or four, then market the other three or four and sell them. There are some they don't even have the time to go put the listing up, because they still have jobs right now, they don't have the time to put the listing up. Six months gives them enough time to basically let the property sit there, focus on the other ones, and in month fur they are finally like-- okay let me go market it and go sell it.

David: Wow that is really really cool, man. Hey tell us a little bit about-- how the average person that is interested in maybe a career change could benefit from your instruction. Tell us a little bit about what kind of program you have in terms of coaching or mentoring.

Jack: Sure so we very simply ten years ago or eleven years ago, when the market crashed, we always said, oh my God, we are are the only people n the world doing this-- not the only people in the world, but you know what I mean; compared to the amount of people doing the house flipping. So it's like there is nobody doing that. At some point in time you have to teach that to people. When 2008 and 2009 came along, I saw people losing their shirts left and right, in the real estate market, our method continued working. We were like, you know what? I think now is the time-- it was probably the worst timing ever to go out in the market and start teaching this, because nobody wanted to know anything about real estate. We felt the need to go out there and say, hello here is a method that is completely different that works in this market. A bunch of people understood that and-- the way we did that was by creating a home study course, which we re did a couple of years ago and we keep updating it. It used to be CD's and DVDs. They are pretty much outdated, 2 or 3 years ago we created it as an online course with videos. Now we have the ability if something changes to immediately create a new module, retire a module, update a module. So it's a growing, living and changing course. For example, just the other day I added a new assignment agreement that allows people to do an assignment without actually disposing what they are making in the process, right? I am sure you guys use something like that already. I hadn't, so it was like oh my God! Our people need to know about this. So we added that into it. It of course shows you exactly in detail how to find these properties. The first three modules are all about how to find areas where properties sell quickly. In reality there are areas where properties just don't sell very quickly. [00:28:30.08 - inaudible] worthless properties in this country. There are properties you can buy for $10. But then you go, what? Sell them for £200, that's not what we do. We want to make sure there are to [00:28:44.25 - inaudible] bottom feeder techniques. We have guys who focus on million dollar properties that they [00:28:51.08 - inaudible] 600 grand, then wholesale them for 700 grand, right? Our sweet point is between 10 and 100. We teach you how to find, how exactly how to find these properties, how to find the areas, identify the areas that sell quickly, how to get the lists of them, how to contact the owners, how to get those deals accepted. On the selling side, how to list them on the different platforms. The key part of that is how to create a listing that stands head and shoulders above everyone else. Also-- some alternative market strategies to sell these properties much quicker to people we kind of know already are interested in this market. So it's an entire set, there is nothing missing, it's a complete buying and selling course on the land flipping that we do. That is something everyone can get, start right away.

David: How would somebody find you, Jack? How would somebody go about connecting with you? Do you have a website that you can send people to?

Jack: Absolutely, our website is called, where there are videos and things like that. Then we also have a-- Facebook group that is also called LandProfitGeneratorRealEstateInvesting. Obviously I have a podcast called Forever Cash, like the name of the book. Forever Cash Real Estate, it's about creating. At the end of the day it's about creating a life of pure and true financial independence so you can do what you really love in life. For that-- as I said earlier, you need to have a cash machine. If you are in a job that pays $30, 40'000, you don't have enough traction financially to get to the goal line of financial independence. You got to increase something so-- somebody that's a beginning investor to go back to your question. The way to do this is to add this on the side, because it is land, it does have less moving pieces, you can add it on the side. Once it generated enough income, once it generated enough cash flow, you quit your job. One of our students just literally did that. He gave his resignation last week, because his income from land deals is now higher than his income from his job.

David: Man, I love that. Jack that is really, really cool, man. Jack, tell us a little bit about the book, 'Life Time Cash Flow', 'Forever Cash Flow'.

Jack: Forever Cash, yes.

David: How it will help you create a lifetime cash flow.

Jack: Forever Cash flow is really a book about our financial philosophy, which is that there are three kinds of cash. Most people with what we call one time cash. One time is cash is you work one time and you get paid one time. We made up this language and these words in my family, because my wife and I are both from different countries. I am from Germany, she is from Honduras central America. We make up words sometimes, we create new English words. One time cash is basically you work for it once and get paid once. A job where you work 40 hours, get paid hourly, even if it's a salary, you get paid for work at a certain time, that's it. You don't show up for work for a week, you're fired, right? Flips are one time cash, just much higher quality one time cash. So there is nothing wrong with one time cash. It's just you want to get to a high quality one time cash so that-- if you do something you are paid a lot for it, so you have some-- you can get out of debt, move some over to the sidelines, so once what you have moved over to the sidelines is big enough, you then invest in additional cash flow kind of assets. The second type of cash is temporary cash. When we do seller financing deals, they are temporary cash. You pay for it, you work for it once, you get paid again, and again, and again long term, but they do end. They are a great stabilizer, a great vehicle to quit your job on, they are a great vehicle to be able to take care of a sick family member for half a year and come back because you get paid for a long time, but you still have to convert it-- eventually have to convert your cash flow into the third kind of cash flow which is what we call Forever cash. Forever cash is lifetime generational cash flow. That is really what we do; we generate land flipping, we generate one time cash when we do wholesale flips, buy something for a thousand and sell it for ten, make $9'000, move on. Buy something for ten and sell it for 30, make twenty grand and move on, right? That is also the temporary cash is cash flow, that cash flow comes in move all of it if possible onto the sidelines. The combination of those two we reinvest into rental houses and apartment complexes, because that provides generational cash flow.

David: Man I love that.

Jack: -- and how you do that, in my opinion really anyone in any life situation right now within five to seven years can get to financial independence by following those steps.

David: Woo!

Mike: That's cool.

David: Man that's awesome. I like how you are using your flips and your owner financing deals to put that money on the sideline, but then you are taking that and investing those into longer term properties that are going to be spitting off that cash flow for the long term. I love how you phrase it, one time cash, temporary cash, and then lifetime cash. Do you talk about those three different approaches in your book?

Jack: Yes, this is exactly what the book is about. My wife and my story, about how we created that, how we came up with that. This is an age old wealth creating strategy. We didn't come up with that. The European aristocracy has done that forever. They take money that they made, they are land lords, they own the land, they rent out the land, the land is being processed and they get a fee for that. They have rental houses, they take that and what do they do with it? They buy more land, more real estate, buy more things. For generations, for centuries that is how they have been able to maintain a lifestyle in their freaking castles by implementing that lifestyle. The thing is, they just don't teach it. They just don't teach it, they don't tell anyone that. We have to figure this our ourselves, because it is not being taught anywhere, the rich keep that to themselves, and we basically-- now we teach it in order to make an impact on this world.

David: Jack, I love the cover of your book, I literally just bought a copy of it right now. Check this thing out, man, you have a lot of knowledge to share with people. I am grateful for the opportunity to have had the chance to interview you. You have shared some really cool stuff with our viewers and our listeners. So guys if you are more interested in learning about Jack, and Jack's mentoring program, and how to flip pieces of land; it sounds to me like Jack is very passionate about this. He has a ton of information to share with you guys. Check out his book it's called, 'Forever Cash'. You can buy it on Amazon, I just bought a copy of it, I am super excited. If you are interested to learn more about Jack as well, checkout his website,, right Jack? Am I saying that right?

Jack: is the way to get into it and see some free videos, free training on how this all works. Again the Facebook group is LandProfitGenerator. Actually another way to get the book too, because it is officially sold out on Amazon, you have to buy it on the secondary market, go to You can buy the book there for a few books because we still have a few sitting here. Other than that it's sold out.

David: How come it's sold out? Are you using KDP?

Jack: No, we had it published with a proper publisher, but then we kind of didn't like what they were doing, canceled our publication, so they wouldn't allow us to publish it on Amazon anymore. We literally would have to create a secondary listing. What I really need to do is write Forever Cash 2.0. With some additional pieces in there, then come out with it, it will be available. I just haven't got around to doing that yet. You can buy it on the secondary market of Amazon, or you can go to and get it directly from us.

David: Awesome,, just wanted to be sure we got that right. Jack, it has been an absolute pleasure. I've got a book coming in the mail. I am going to check out some of your stuff online. I am eager to learn more, I am sure all of our listeners and viewers are also chomping at the bit to learn more. I mean we are talking about being able to buy properties that you are not going to see for 15 ish cents on the dollar, and be able to wholesale these either via double close, or assignment. Just like we have taught you on the previous 70 episodes guys about houses. This is the exact same approach. However, it seems like it's easier because there is less things to calculate, meaning there are no repair estimates typically. Not only that, but the response rate seems to be about 10-20 times what we are getting on our traditional direct mail. We are lucky to get 2%, maybe 3% best case. It is probably averaging about 1%. That's okay because it still works, there is still a profit on that for us. But if you are getting your response rates up at 10 or 15% versus 1 or 2%, that means the cost to get involved, the barriers to entry are a lot less.

Jack also mentioned a very good point earlier too about the barriers to entry on making offers and being comfortable, are actually just closing on a property without a buyer lined up. [00:39:27.01 - inaudible] a couple of hundred bucks or even a couple of thousand bucks, that's okay, that makes it much easier. Again, barriers to entry are less to be able to get into these deals, whereas a piece of real estate with a home on it, even one that is distressed can cost easily $60-80-100'000 and that can be in the low end neighborhood as well. Lot's and lot's of advantages with this.

Jack, thank you, man. This has been an awesome podcast, I know I've learned a ton. Mike, you have got to have a question or two in this here, right?

Mike: No, I think we have summarized pretty well, Jack if these is anything else you want to add--.

David: Anything else you want to share, by all means. Again, thank you so much for allowing us an hour of your time today, man. I can tell you right now I have already learned a ton.

Jack: Wonderful, thank you very much for having me. The only thing I would add is that for any beginning investor out there, just make sure you look around, what made this work for us is that we didn't know anything about real estate when we started. So we didn't know how to estimate the repair of a kitchen or a bathroom, a roof or a foundation or any of these things. To a degree I have a better idea now, because we obviously have rental properties, and repairs are coming our way all the time. But what made it work for us is that land flipping we literally didn't have to know anything, we are buying it for 10,15,20 cents on the dollar, there is so much margin of safety in there, that even if we get it wrong or something, we would still be able to make money on this. This might be attractive for some. For others you want to see those houses be built, and those houses be rehabbed, and have that enjoyment of driving buy and be like, I fixed this one up, I bought this one, I made this better, it's absolutely beautiful. So everyone needs to find what they truly love. But the point is, pick something that you can handle. Everyone is at a different comfort level, a different confidence level. So whatever you confidence level is, that's where you want to get into, so you actually have a true shot at succeeding in this.

David: Jack you nailed it.

Jack: Once you have succeeded in that, you confidence level and your capabilities are going to go up, then you tackle more complicated things. 16 years ago, if somebody had come at me with a seven million dollar apartment complex, I would have run the other way, because I would have not understood the first thing about even entertaining the complexity and even knowing where to start things. Now we own them because the last bunch of years we have built up our capabilities and our confidence. It doesn't have to be an end game what you start with, but it has to be a starter wherte you can wrap your arms around it, and make things work.

David: Right. Jack I have one more quick question, we didn't really cover it, and I am sure there are lots of strategies, but-- what is the easiest way for somebody that might be starting out to determine what a piece of land is worth? Because when you say you are going to buy it on 15 cents on the dollar, that's great and all, but how do I know the property is worth 60 grand?

Jack: In our program we teach five ways, the easiest two, number one is to assess value. In almost every State except for California where they [00:42:42.22 - inaudible] access value at a certain level, in all other States the assessed value is in a clear relationship to market value. So for example, in Arizona we have-- where I am, in a stable market which is where we are in most of the country, the assessed value is about two thirds of market value. In our [00:43:00.28] that relationship is 20%, so if a property is worth 100 grand it is assessed at 20. In Florida is at 80-90% of market value. In Colorado is at 90-100% of market value. So all you need to do is figure out what is that ration by calling the assessor in the county one time and say, hey I see these properties assessed at $50'000, how did you come up with that? What is that relation to market value? They will tell you and you will have one guidance point. You can't rely on it but it's a guidance point. The second one is the same as what you guys use; comparables. We don't want to buy deals in areas where there is nothing going on, where no one is selling any properties. If you see no sales for the last two or three years, you don't want to be the first-- you don't want to buy something there because no one is selling, right? If you see a bunch of listed properties and no sales, that's a bad sign, right? Therefore you only want to do deals in areas where there are some sales. You have comparables just like with houses. So you see 500 properties that have sold in the last year for $50,000 for 35 to $45'000, you have got your value. So it's the same exact way that you do that in the housing world. There is a few more that we share in our course.

David: Wow very cool.

Mike: Very cool, man.

David: Jack, I am ultra grateful for your time today, thank you so much for coming on and sharing a wealth of knowledge, a ton of value that you have shared with us today. So again, thank you so much. Guys, don't forget to check out Jack, there are lots of ways, he has a Facebook group called LandProfitGenerator, you can go to to learn more about his mentoring program, then of course he has a book called 'Forever cash'. You can get that-- one more time Jack, what is the link--.


David: Man, I'm excited, I can't wait to learn more about this, I just bought the book. Mike you want to close us out here, bud?

Mike: Discount property investors, thanks fr listening, if you haven't yet, check out the free wholesale course. Jack again, we will say thank you very much for joining us today, we appreciate it. Thanks for listening, guys.

David: Until next time, guys, bye bye.

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