In this episode, David Dodge joined by the owner of SJO Investments Scott Oots. Scott is a serial entrepreneur of various companies, a real estate firm in Southern California. He talks about how he got started, his business, and all the ups and downs he encountered. Scott shares some gold nuggets to all the beginners in Real Estate.
Scott has been doing this for 5 years. He began by following the Flip to Freedom program of Sean Terry but soon developed his own system.
David: Alright guys, welcome back to the Discount Property Investor podcast. I am your host David Dodge. My partner Mike is out in the field running some appointments today. However, I have a very special guest on the show. I'm honored and I'm privileged to have Scott Oots on the show. He is an investor out of Southern California that primarily focuses on wholesaling in both Southern California and I think Texas, am I right, Scott?
Scott: Dallas Texas.
David: Dallas Texas, I love it. Scott, I met you at Max's event a year and a half ago. We haven't really had a chance to connect a whole lot since then apart from meeting that first time. I am going to use that opportunity to get to know you. But I want to thank you for coming on the show. I want to learn a little bit about what you're doing. I'm sure in the process of us chatting there will be some gold nuggets that fly out there for all of our listeners and viewers, to help them build a better real estate business for themselves. Guys, you are listening to the Discount Property Investor podcast. Let's keep it simple. You make your money when you buy, you get payed when you sell. But, it all starts when you buy. One more thing before we start, guys, change your mindset, right? If you want to be a wholesaler you have to learn how to get really good at marketing. We are in the marketing business no matter what business we are in. Scott, thanks for coming on the show, glad to have you. Let's talk a little bit about who Scott is, and how he got started.
Scott: Great. So I have been in the wholesaling business about five years, maybe a little over that now. Basically I knew nothing about wholesaling at that time. I know there are a lot of people who watch these podcasts and say, oh my God, I don't even know where to get started, right? But you nailed it when you said we are in the marketing business. We really are. That's what we do. So when I started this, I was looking to be a real estate agent. I said, you know what? I needed something different. I'm going to go and be a real estate agent. Then I started realizing all the red tape involved in that. I just didn't want to work for somebody. I didn't want to have a broker above me. I just wanted to do my own thing. So Shaun Terry 'Flip to Freedom', his voice popped up on a YouTube video. You know how you get lost watching all those videos sometimes, the next one pops up and the next one pops up. Boom! There goes Shaun's video. I hear, 'What's up? What's up?' I'm like, who is this guy? He got my attention and I became a fan of Shaun real quick. Started getting into his videos, watching what he was doing. I said, wow okay this is a different approach to real estate. It is something I can go do without having to be an agent and report to someone. So basically started doing my research and that dropped some marketing. Didn't know what I was doing. Had never talked to a seller on the phone. Had never tried to get a buyers list. I said, you know what? We're just going to jump in. So send some mail out, got a few calls in. When I say send mail, I sent like 500 pieces. They were postcards, just shot them out. I think I used List Source. Got a couple of calls in. No idea what I was doing. We are answering the phone, me and my wife. It's just like, okay, I don't even know what I'm doing at this point.
David: I like that you are just like balls to the wall though, man. I just jumped in, I don't know what I'm doing. There really is no better way to start, because once you start making some mistakes you don't make them again. You learn those lessons the hard way, but those are the best lessons. Guys, there is something to be said about that. Be prepared is important, but taking action trumps that. You can learn as you go. Didn't mean to interrupt, Scott. I just wanted to emphasize some of these points for our listeners so we can provide the most value.
Scott: You nailed it. Taking action is it. You may have heard the phrase, you don't know what you don't know. When you look at that and say, okay I didn't know what the hell I was doing. But, I had to find out where I was going to get stumped. Pulling a list, that was easy. People over thing list pulling way too much. They always have to have that perfect list. There isn't a perfect list. Let's be honest. No matter what you mail, what you text, what you call; your message has to get to that seller at the time when they have time to deal with it, or want to deal with it.
Scott: That's why response rates on mail are not 100%. You get a very low response rate on those things. But, the seller may want to sell a house, but your postcard has to get in their mail box on a day where they actually want to deal with a problem they have. That's it.
David: That's it.
Scott: It's all a gamble, right? You go to Vegas and throw a hundred bucks on red, maybe you win, maybe you lose. You have to keep sending those postcards out. People spend way too much time saying, I really have to look at this pre-foreclosure list, I have to drill this down. Send the stuff, send it.
Scott: So start now. When we got our calls in, I got my first appointment booked. It was in Riverside California. I was so excited, but I was so scared, because I had no idea what I was doing. I have always been able to talk to people, so I said, you know what? I'm going to go out there and see what I can do. Go to the house, seller completely shafted me. Her son is there, not her. I'm like, what's going on here? Seller isn't even at the house, right? Lesson one I learned; always make sure the seller or the signers are going to be at the appointment. I learned that one the hard way. So now I'm sitting here talking to her son. The son steps into the other room and calls to her, talks to me, goes back and calls her, talks to me. It's going back and forth.
David: Oh man.
Scott: No way this is gonna work. So finally I leave, and I finally get her on the phone after about two days, and talked directly to her. We start working out a deal, right? Decision makers, point one. That's who you have to talk to. If you're going to a house to talk to someone, you can ask someone prior to making that appointment, 'is there any other signers that will need to sign this?' If it's a community property State like California, the husband, if he's talking to you, the wife will most likely need to sign or vice versa. So are you married? Oh great, your husband, he might need to actually sign this as well.
David: Yeah when are they both going to be out there? I love that. Great point. I learned that one the hard way. It is such a simple thing to do. The husband may be the controlling party and say, well I will talk to you then pass it on to my wife. Then you start saying, objection, right? There's his objection. So listen Mr. Seller, I would really like to talk to you guys both just so I can address all of your concerns. Have you ever played the game of telephone? I tell you something, you tell your wife something, she tells you, you tell me. It is just much easier if all of us talk together so we are on the same page.
Scott: I like that approach.
David: I love that approach. I take the transparency approach as well as much as I possibly can, but I feel it is just best to set the agenda. Tell people what you need and how-- basically-- we are here to help people. Sometimes in order to help them, I need something in return. I need some cooperation is really what that comes down to. Yeah, tell them straight up before you waste time on those appointments. Love that.
Scott: Yep so now I know that and we do that all the time. But with that deal there, when that finally closed, I mean she signed that contract with me, and I had no buyers, right? So now I am on step two. How do I find a buyer? So I started advertising my deals out there, met with a few buyers of the properties. Was actually able to get it locked up for a whopping $4200 that I made on that property. So it wasn't my highest wholesale fee by any means, but it showed success, it showed a working model. Then I needed to work out how to duplicate that going forward. I took that 4000 bucks and went all in, right? Put all that money right back in and said, this is marketing, let's do it. I just said, I'm gonna do it. So I sent out-- I increased my postcards, sent out more, started getting more calls in. You can start seeing a system working. At that point you start feeling real good about yourself. You start getting more contracts locked up. This was early 2016 at this point. 2016 was our first full year in business. We did 1.5 million dollars that first full 12 months. That happened by taking the system that was working, and putting it in places to double it, triple it quadruple it. 500 mailers to a thousand mailers to 1500 mailers. I mean now we are sending almost 200'000 mailer a month. When you look at that and say, okay, how does your company grow? You have to be looking at what you're doing with your marketing, what you're doing with every aspect of your business, and you have to not be afraid to ask questions. So my business grew substantially when I said, okay I need to learn more about this without watching YouTube videos. As I started going I joined-- at the time it was REWW, [00:10:14.16 - inaudible] and Shaun Terry's mastermind.
David: Lots of gold nuggets being dropped. This is a podcast, but sometimes we get excited and we just want to broadcast some stuff. Boom! Also by the way, this is-- uh oh, is that you?
Scott: I think that's on your end.
David: Okay it is, I fixed it. We're good. So yeah, you guys scaled. One thing that I have learned from listening to you already, is that you love to go in hard. You like to go in, you're not afraid to invest in marketing. You don't look at marketing like an expense. You see it the same way I do, you look at it like an investment. Your very first marketing campaign was-- how many post cards, and how long ago?
Scott: 500. That was in 2015.
David: Love it. Mine was in-- 2015 as well. I spent $1300 on a credit card towards postcards. I did a little more than you did. However, I was like in 62 grand in credit card debt. I hired a coach and did the post cards. I went from 62 grand to 67 grand. The way I looked at it was, I'm already $60'000 in debt, what's another couple of grand? Five or six grand, right? Boom! We both did that, we saw the difference between making an investment in the marketing, and it being an expense. Now, before we proceed, Scott, I want to say one thing, because I don't want to mislead people; I love transparency. The first month or two it is going to feel like an expense might be. Period. You may spend money and not see a return. That is an expense. An investment, spending money and seeing a return. The reason I say month one or two, hopefully not month three, but it's possible, is because you should be doing deals by then. Don't expect to send a postcard campaign out guys. Scott, you know this, right? And expect to get three deals closed by next Tuesday, it's not gonna happen. But, you are going to get leads, you are going to get phone calls, you are going to start setting appointments and stuff is going to happen. It's going to fall on your lap. The harder you work, the luckier you get. We have all heard of this. So moving forward, Scott, five years ago, 500 post cards. How many are you guys sending now?
Scott: Almost 200'000 a month now.
David: 200'000 a month. Now, Scott is in multiple markets. So that's going to increase his spend obviously, he is doing marketing in two places. Also the fact that you're in Southern California, I don't know that market at all, it is probably the most foreign market to me. I'm in the Mid West, I'm in St Louis Missouri. So you know, a lot of the markets in my vicinity, 300, 400, 500 miles in every direction are pretty similar, right? Southern California, a whole different beast. I would imagine the cost per lead is going to be higher there, am I wrong?
Scott: Yeah the cost per lead here is significantly higher. It is a very competitive State, right? You look at Arizona, the guru capital of the world for real estate, they are all there. Southern California, there are very large spreads here when it comes to wholesale deals. But, it does take a lot of effort to get that deal. I know a lot of people who say, there are no deals here, I'm going virtual, I'm going to St Louis, I'm going somewhere else. A lot of people do that. But, the reason we like Southern California is because we cracked it, right? We stayed consistent with what we were doing. We pushed forward to actually build a business here. I like how you're being real with everyone right now. I want to make sure we do the exact same thing.
David: Drop it, what's up?
Scott: You're talking to people. You say, hey you might not see money for a couple of months. That is one of the first times I've heard anyone say that, and that is so true. People are afraid to say it. On a podcast people are afraid to say it.
David: Yeah it may be an expense. Hopefully it's not, Scott. Hopefully you can spend some money, within one month you can get a deal. Don't be discouraged if you don't. Here's why, this is the third podcast I have done today. I've got two more set, right? I try to bulk these. The reason I even say that is because the first two were really in line with this one. The first one was running appointments with my partner Mike. The second one was the consistency and the followup. But you have to be transparent with your students, and all the listeners and viewers right now, right? The thing about wholesaling and real estate investing in general is-- it does take some time. My partner Mike and I, we have done over 500 wholesale transactions in the last five years. We love to teach people how to do these transactions. The average transaction for Mike and I, and our business, right? Over the last five years, if you take all of the data. I've been full time at this five years, been doing real estate for fifteen, right? But if you take the data from the last five years, the average deal we close takes four to six months. Now, it doesn't mean I can't get a call today, run an appointment that afternoon or the next day, or get an appointment the same time as the appointment, or the next day, and have a buyer lined up that day or the next day. That's possible, it happens all the time. But, in the beginning it's not necessarily going to happen often, because you don't have enough leads coming in. So you really need to nurture those leads, be following up with those leads. You have to understand that people-- you did a really good job earlier, Scott of saying that people's motivation chances very rapidly, right? Getting that postcard to them on the day that they are motivated is very important. That's why you send it once and you don't get a ton of calls, doesn't mean that you had a bad mailer or even a bad list, just means for whatever reason, the motivation in the market place wasn't there the day those hit. So mail them again in a week or two, or three, or whatever that might be. Same thing with your follow ups. If you are spending money on marketing, right? And you're going out and setting appointments, and you're not able to get the contract. It just drives me crazy when people get this far in the business. They spend money on marketing, or they generate those leads somehow, right? Time or money, one or the other. They get out on the appointment and they don't make an offer. Or they don't make an offer the next day, a week later or whatever, right? They have spent so much time and effort. Following up with these people is as important, I love it. Absolutely love it.
Scott: They are afraid to make the offer.
David: Afraid to make the offer.
Scott: It comes down to confidence, right? One thing you touched on is consistency. So you need to be very consistent in every single thing in the business, right? So if you're sending out postcards, don't send out 500 postcards one time and say, well I didn't get the response I wanted, throw that list away and pull another list. I think there is the-- kind of idea in this business that you have to have every tool before you start now.
David: Man, I hate that!
Scott: Have to subscribe to every single thing out there. Pretty soon you have made no money, you spent five grand on postcards, now you have a texting software. You have a software to look up stuff. You have Podio you pay for because you wanted the bells and whistles. All this stuff, your subscriptions add up up to 1500 bucks a month and you haven't made anything. That is such a misconception out there, right? Like there is a Driving for Dollars programs, it's awesome, I use it. But for someone on day one, grab a pen, grab a note pad. Make some money, and that is why I was able to grow my business so fast. I didn't go and invest in every single little thing that somebody told me to do, right? I stayed my course. If you listen to people talk out there, right? They say, hey our new best thing is text messaging. But, someone is making all this money on direct mail right now. Someone says, go to text messaging, they just go.
David: Yeah. Then they drop all the mail and all those efforts. Often times you have to have six, seven, eight, ten touches, right? If you mail them five times, you are only two touches away from a deal with certain people. What do they do? Shiny objects are a terrible thing in this business. I just had a new students sign up two days ago. He said, man I've done some mail, done some bandit signs, done some door knocking. I do lots of cold calling. I am just struggling to get a deal. I was like, let's talk about the consistency; how often are you doing these things? How much time are you spending? He is flip flopping. He is doing exactly that. I'm not trying to call anybody out, but if you are that person that sees those shiny objects, stop. Here is the thing; they all work. That's the secret that people are looking for. They are always looking for that, well maybe this is better than that. Sometimes something might be better, right? That goes without saying. But direct mail works. Cold calling and cold texting works. Door knocking, radio advertising, bandit signs, networking. All of these things work and they get deals for Scott, they get deals for me, they work. So be consistent in those things. I love it. That is a huge cold nugget, Scott, thank you for sharing. I am reiterating here the value, right? There is nothing wrong with doing five, six, seven types of marketing. Sounds like Scott is, I know I am, right? I'm doing all of these things. But I am not half assing them, I am not going in and out. I am doing them all, I am doing them consistently. If you are new, the lesson here; find one thing that you like doing, that you enjoy when it comes to marketing. Maybe it's driving around doing bandit signs. Maybe it's door knocking, maybe you like the phones and you want to cold call, or maybe you're lazy like me, and you want to pay the radio station and my direct mail company to deliver my message to my customers so they call me. It doesn't matter what you choose, they all work. So I think what Scott is trying to say here, and I went off on a crazy tangent and can talk for days, so I'm sorry, Scott. I think the message Scott is trying to teach you guys is-- on top of the fact-- don't follow that shiny object. If you want to do mail, do it, get good at it, automate it or get someone on your team who can take over, then, that is when, at that point is when, then you should go do the next thing which might be bandit signs or cold calling. Get good at that. It doesn't need to necessarily mean you're a pro at it. But don't do it for a week or two, alright? Get a system in place, I love it. So Scott, I don't want to take up a whole bunch of your time today. I am very grateful to have you. It's good to connect with you as well. Like I said, we didn't know each other all that well. I see you out there, you're a beast in the business, so I had to have on the show, thanks for coming. What are you doing in your business today? Is it just direct mail or are you doing other things too?
Scott: So for us we do direct mail, cold calling, text messaging. So those--.
David: I did the exact same things plus radio, but that's about it, yep.
Scott: Radio is something we never really dabbled in. I think people think they have to do everything at once.
David: Driving for dollars, we both mentioned that. But that's only half of it sometimes is just generating the list. We can generate a list, go buy a list. From there, we are still going to mail them, cold call and cold text them, right? Just depends on the data that we get from the list. But, the list is generated in that way. Bandit signs too, Scott. I do a little bit of that, but that is-- we do it in waves. I know I just said to be consistent, that's fine. But, if you do big waves, that's a whole other beast. So instead of us buying 100 or 150 a week, we will go buy 3000 and just plaster the city with them, then we will wait two or three months then do that again. But again, we are consistent with the wave. So I love that, man. I love it. So you're doing a lot of mail, you're doing cold calling and cold texting, creating your own lists, buying your own lists. You're in two markets. Tell me a little bit about your team. What does that look like?
Scott: Our team right now, we have twelve people on our team. The majority of our team are always going to be sales. So we have inside sales that does all of out texting. It warms up that lead to pass off. Our actual outside sales or acquisitions as well call it, those are the guys that go in for the close. So they don't waste their time on cold leads. They are focused on medium and high probability. Cold stays with the inside sales team. For follow up they stay with our
leads team as well. We have three people on our leads team that are answering our inbound calls. We are getting, pre-Covid we were getting about 450 calls in a week right in there. So we have three VA's that answer all of our inbound calls, that funnel it through our system, and schedule appointments for our acquisitions team. Now those calls--.
David: 90 calls a day, you guy are getting a ton of calls.
Scott: The majority are going to be Monday through Friday. It tapers off on the weekends. But, that's slowed down pretty significantly as shut downs and things occurred. We are dealing with the Covid situation just like everyone else is right now. We have seen a slow down in business, but we just have to shift how we're doing things. With our acquisitions team, they are doing typically over the phone now, and not going out to talk to people. My dispositions team, they are still dealing with buyers, but they are having to make five times the calls to get a buyer on. In the past, we sent out a list, boom, we got a buyer. But now, we are having to do five times the calls on every property, because lenders are more strict. Buyers are buying with only bigger spreads. They are looking for those home runs because they don't know what the market is going to do. So we have had to adjust out business model for that quite a bit. Our biggest challenge is, we are an in office team, but everyone is at home right now. It makes it a little more difficult for us to have our comradery as a team, just because everyone is over Zoom calls and things like that right now. If we want to talk about-- as business, what we're doing right now; we are consistent in every single thing we do. We have a killer follow up sequence to make sure that no seller gets left behind. So they are getting followup from our actual sales people. If we don't close the deal, it goes back to my leads team from manual and auto followup as well. So my leads team is constantly following up with people.
David: Are you all on Podio, or do you have another system as well?
Scott: We use Podio, but we use the InvestorPo area of Podio. So it's the upgraded Podio. We are switching over to their new system which takes it away from Podio completely. That transition should happen in the next two to three weeks I believe.
David: Yeah I think a lot of people have taken advantage of that already. I know those guys pretty well. They are in a mastermind that I'm in. They have a phenomenal software. So if there is anybody listening that is interesting in getting a really good software, InvestorPo is a great place. I use Podio, and I use REIBlackbook. We are shifting out of Podio to 100% REIBlackbook, just because less is more. It is a comparable thing to invest, both are great. Love that, very cool.
Scott: Whatever system you use has to fit your business, right? Just because you ise a different one from me, mine works for me, I don't want to switch, because it's a real pain to switch systems too.
David: It can be a pain, right. You know, one thing I tell a lot of students too, the CRM you chose, doesn't really matter that much. Yes some are going to have more bells and whistles than others. How simple do you want it? How complex do you want it? Are you wanting something that is more focused on acquisition than disposition? I mean there are a lot of options out there. At the end of the day, a CRM does two things really really well. It may have a hundred bells and whistles, I am not talking about those, I'm talking about what a CRM really does. I break it down into basically two categories. One is notes and the other is tasks, that is it. You can put all the data in, that's notes, right? Pictures even, comments, conversations, data from your analysis or due diligence of the property. That's all in there and it may look a certain way or be pretty or not, or whatever. Either way it's notes, stuff going in that you're putting in. Then last but not least, is the task. When do I need to follow up next? Or in my case, and it sounds like yours too, when does the VA on my team, or the acquisition manager on my team get assigned to follow up with that person again? Again, you can have all these other things that help make that smoother, simpler, faster, easier. But, at the end of the day, if you take out all the bells and whistles, that's what all the CRMs have in common. The ability to take notes and the ability to remind you to follow up. So I love that. So, talked about your marketing, you are doing a ton of it, you are spending $50'000 plus a month on marketing, but you see it as an investment, so do I because it's bringing you a positive ROI on return on that investment. You have a team, you're virtual. You guys have InvestorPO as a software. What else, Scott? What am I missing?
Scott: So I mean if we want to talk about what we do very well, right?
David: Let's talk about that, yeah.
Scott: Well when it comes to talking with a seller, and I have heard so many people talking with a seller. Let's be honest, they are doing it wrong, right? Everyone has their own way. When you talk sales, because that's really what it is. Everyone has got their own approach, which you need, right? But, everyone is so quick to go in for this kill, right? To go in and get that signature, they are at the house ten minutes. That's their appointment and they are gone, right? We will spend an hour, and hour and a half at a house. We won't even talk about the deal until the last five minutes. So there is something called rapport building, right? That is so important, because what you're doing is you are knocking on that door, or you are making that phone call and you are immediately just talking. You are carrying on a conversation. Hey, how are ya today? Great, great. If you're going into the house, you are walking around, having the seller show you around the house. A lot of people say, oh Mr Seller, I'm just going to walk around real quick if you don't mind and take a look, and you leave the seller sitting in their living room.
David: Not me.
Scott: You're missing that opportunity to walk that house with that seller. I don't care about the offer. Let's be honest; when we go into the house, we know what we're going to offer. That might just be five grand based on the house, but you have done your due diligence. You know what the comps are--.
David: So you guys have a credibility packet that you would bring I would imagine? Right?
Scott: We don't anymore, we actually stopped.
David: Alright, let's talk about that. We have one. I'm lazy, I don't use it everyday obviously. The main things that are in there that I think are important that we teach out students though, is always have a contract on you. Always have an option agreement as well, a lot of investors don't even know what that is. But if it's not a great deal, why not try and help them, but also not be obligated to buy. Gives you the ability to buy if needed. It's not something we use everyday, but there are those people that a listing doesn't make sense, they can't afford our offer, but there is still something there that we can maybe help them with. So purchasing sale, option agreement, proof of funds I think can be very helpful. But probably the most important thing, and again, I don't use it every appointment, but I should is what is called a seller's net sheet. You have probably seen these before. It's not multiple offers. Don't be confused. A lot of people say, oh well we go out and make three or four offers on every property with different terms, well we do that too. But the seller's net sheet isn't about those other offers. Instead it is about making yours look best, right? That may not even mean that it is the highest, right? Scott, you know this. The highest offer isn't the best. What is best is how to solve the problem for the seller. Which may be time, not money, right? So what we do is say, hey if the house-- we basically do this, Scott, and I didn't mean to interrupt you, because I want to hear you approach too. I love just throwing value out when I see the opportunity. One of the things we do, we do our MAO formula, you're familiar, right? MAO = ARV x Roughly 70% - Repairs.
Scott: Uh huh.
David: If you're wholesaling, minus your wholesale fee. Well that formula is simple for an investor, but it complicates-- it's complicated when you show it to a seller, an owner. They see a 30% discount. Instead, we show them what all of those things might be. We also show them that if they were to do their own repairs and fix it up, what that number would look like. More importantly, not what that number would look like, but how long it would take them, right? They may make ten grand more doing a good rehab, but hiring an agent, that might take them five to ten months. They may make the same amount of money by doing a low grade rehab, again, hire an agent, going to be consuming. You are going to have seller concessions, you are going to have holding costs, going to have agent commissions, going to have holding costs, agent commissions, cost of repairs, holding taxes and insurance. Or, they can take our offer, which may not even be the best, meaning it's not the highest, right? But it is the best in certain scenarios. It closes in ten days, right? So that's something we definitely bring along in our credibility packet. Again, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I bet you are like, who is this guy interviewing me? He won't shut up, I get it. But, I want to hear why you guys don't have one, because I am sure you have a great reason.
Scott: I mean, we have a great credibility packet. We have hundreds of them printed but we don't use it. Part of the reason we stopped using it-- the only thing we bring to the appointment is our seller contract. We used to go with like a little iPad presentation, we would have-- then we went to the credibility packet. The reason we went away from it is because it takes the seller's focus off of-- takes the seller's focus off of us. It takes the seller's focus off of our conversation with them. So if you give the seller something to look at, or you are walking them through it. They feel like they are just another person you're going to talk to, and you are going to leave after this and go somewhere else after this and do the same presentation.
David: Yeah. I love that. I think that's very important.
Scott: We took away the feeling of a repetitive practice conversation, right? We basically made it so that seller sees that we are literally here for them. We are here to learn about them. We will slip in things about our company that we need to. The seller really needs something. We will make sure we get them that information. But, bottom line; our job is to go to that house and build such a good rapport with that seller, that they take our offer--.
David: And don't want to go look at other offers, they just want that one.
Scott: A lot of times they are going to want to talk to other people, and most of the time we are not the highest. They will still go with us because of that.
David: Did you hear what he just said? He said, most of the time we are not the highest, and they will still go with us. I love it. I experience that as well, Scott. Make a friend. That's really all you want to do on the appointment other than get the agreement signed. I mean, that is the goal, right? But the plan should be make a friend. Often times, and I think you can agree, Scott. We have been doing this about the same amount of time. The problem often times isn't the house itself. That's just what helps solve it. The underlying problem usually is death, divorce, disease, relolocation, and so on and so forth. The house has nothing to do with it, it's just something in the way. So by buying the house we can solve the underlying problem. One thing that you had mentioned was that you are there to make a friend, build the rapport, and not to distract them. We do this as well, but I think-- one of the approaches you guys use is-- you're taking it to the next level, but it's this approach. Mr and Mrs Seller, it's not me versus you, instead it is me and you versus the market place. Let's look at the market place, let's work our numbers backwards. Now, when you do it that way and you have that approach and it's really that mindset, Scott, what happens is that low offer that may have gotten you kicked out ten minutes prior, now make sense and is fair. It's not like, oh I'm not giving your 50 or 100 grand for this property I will give you 60. Well, that's not the best approach. Instead it's like, okay Mr and Mrs-- we both agree that fixed up it could be worth 120, right? But-- in order to get there, it is going to need 25 work. We both know that. I am going to have these other costs. Guess what? When I go to sell it, I am going to have to pay the agent just like you would. The buyer, they are going to have an agent, inspector-- they are going to come in and want money or repairs. Same as you would, right? You change the dynamic from me versus you. Here's my offer, do you want to take it to-- me and you versus the market, right? What can we do together to make this number work for both sides? But also justified it to where it is not a low offer, it is a fair offer. Same offer, just different way of looking at it. Scott, you are filled with nuggets my man!
Scott: We do the analysis too that you compare with the realtor, but we don't bring a sheet for it. What we do is we act like it is something we have never done. We flip our entire contract over-- we just chicken scratch it, right?
David: Love it.
Scott: It looks like we have never done it. Oh we're not prepared for this, because we never really ever need to do this. The back of our contracts will have writing on them all the time. It doesn't have anything to do with the contract itself, but if we come with a preset sheet of paper, then again, it looks like something we already planned on happening. If we're like oh no we don't have a sheet of paper, you know what? Pull this contract out, flip it over. Now you have got the contract into the conversation, right? You have got a contract to the table without saying, oh let me pull out this contract. You have gotten it there, it's flipped over. They just don't know it's the contract yet. So now you're scratching all over the back of it, you're flipping it around so they can see it. You learn how to write upside down on some of these things. Create some humor, oh I'm sorry, let me flip this back around. Then you are going through and talking to them about it. You say, going with us is pretty easy. Flip it over. This is all we need to do.
David: This is it. Keep it simple. Love it. Scott, a couple more quick questions for ya. How is it different operating the business virtually in Dallas, versus the other business of local? I mean that's-- it's the same business but it's very different. How are you guys running that virtually?
Scott: We don't do 100% virtual there. I actually took one of my top sales guys and said, hey do you want an opportunity? I put him on a plane, put his stuff on a truck, and we--.
David: I love it!
Scott: We said, this is a new opportunity for you, for you to literally run-- this is our headquarters here, for you to run our branch, right? For you to almost run this franchise for us. We put him out there--.
David: He went to the-- he was empowered to then go find the boots on the ground to run those appointments and the other people--.
Scott: He is the boots on the ground.
David: He is that guy then? Got it. He is the one taking pictures, running the appointment, looking at the repairs. Then you have a team elsewhere, virtual probably or maybe in Southern California that is helping assist on all other fronts, I love it.
Scott: Our headquarters, home office if you want to call it will always be here. All of our leads team, they answer all the calls, they book the appointments. You wouldn't know that is isn't in the office in most cases. The reason I decided to send someone there is because historically, if we go in person to an appointment, we are going to get in California $25'000 less than we would have got it over the phone. You are face to face, there is just a different aspect to that. In Texas we are getting it $10-12'000 less by being there versus doing--.
David: I agree with with that mindset. I don't do much virtual. I do a little, right? Most of it is in St Louis where I love, that's where I invest. We have about 65 rental properties. Always have anywhere from five to ten flips going. We do a lot of wholesaling as well. Anywhere from six to ten deals in a month. When we go, we always have a better, lower, more valuable price for us than if we are doing ti virtual. I think that's phenomenal. Scott, thanks again for coming on the show. I want to keep the episode short, I don't want to go too long here. But I definitely want to highlight all things Scott Oots. Scott, where can people find you on online? Social media, but also you have a course I believe?
Scott: Yeah, so we have a sales training course. We looked at the market, so me and Mike my CEOO, he's very good at sale. What we did was, we came together and said, what are some of the things that are just not top enough? Right? People can learn how to send mail by watching YouTube videos, they can buy everyone's courses that are out there. But we wanted to do something different, so we said, what can we do different than a product that is offered? So we started REI Masters. It is an in person sales training. You can go to a sales training with 200 people in it, you can sit and watch that Power Point presentation. For us it's different. You are looking at 30 people maximum in the room. We're not sitting there having you watch a Power Point. We are calling your leads. You're calling your leads.
David: Wow, I love that. Hands on.
Scott: Right? You're going to call your lead and we are going to make you mute the phone so we tell you the different approach. Our goal is to help you lock up goals in the room. You are going to spend the whole time role playing, practicing, learning, objection fighting. We are going to get you through all of this over two days. Our goal is to get you in the room, literally lock the outside and say, look, lunch has been brought in, no one is leaving. We are going to sit in here and we are going to learn how to do sales properly. How to build rapport. So we built that and we have the thing ready to go, and then Covid hit.
David: Oh no!
Scott: Our first event was supposed to be in Dallas two weeks ago. But unfortunately, we didn't go there because of this. We talked about switching it online, but the whole point of what we were doing was really having this--.
David: Intimacy, right. A new date on the books yet?
Scott: We are going to wait until things start opening up, then we-- but if they go to REIMasters.com, you can check it out on there. We can probably work out a promo code for you to give them a discount or something if they want to sign up with it.
David: Sweet, it will be great. Guys, REIMasters.com, go check it out. Scott is the real deal. I have been really pushing to get investors on the podcast that are doing big things. Scott fit that perfectly. He is doing huge things. So if you guys want to learn more about his program on sales, I think it's phenomenal that they are metaphorically locking themselves in a room, and they are forcing people to get on the phone, set appointments, probably make offers. I am sure deals will be done at this event. It sounds like a perfect place for a deal to get done. Not a lot of people are really doing that hands on approach. I think it is phenomenal. Scott, how can somebody find you on social media?
Scott: You can look me up @TheScottOots, Facebook, Instagram, I have a YouTube channel as well. So we have some stuff going there. We just built my new studio here.
David: I like it!
Scott: So we are ready to get some stuff going. Yeah, come find me on there, follow me on Instagram, follow me on YouTube. We are going to have some good content. All that content is free. People help me get going when I was getting going, and I want to do what I can to try and give back, and help people change the direction of their life. I didn't go anywhere, I hadn't been going anywhere, I was broke, but now I'm making money because of these free things that cost me nothing. All I ask in return is to help somebody else get started as well. That's what I want to see happen. There is so much stuff out there, so much payed stuff out there, but there is a lot of free stuff out there too.
David: Speaking of free stuff, guys, head over to Freewholesalecourse.com. That's my course. Also, brand new, Freewholesaleblueprint.com. It is different from the course. This is the systems that I use in my business. We talked a little bit about it earlier; you may not need all of these in the beginning, but as you scale to a level that Scott or I is at, you are going to want some systems in there. I love it. Check Scott's course our REIMasters.com. Did I get that right?
Scott: That's it.
David: The REIMasters.com. Scott, give me some departing words for my audience. If you are new at real estate investing, what should you be focusing on? And what is the mindset you need to have?
Scott: So right now, the fact that so many people are locked down at home because of this whole Covid thing, right now, everyone should be watching some of those YouTube videos, making cold calls, because guess what? Your sellers are at home right now.
David: Yes they are.
Scott: They have been watching Netflix now for a month in a lot of cases, and they are--. Granny wants to talk to you. Call and talk to her. She has been bored in her house, can't see her family, right? Start calling these people, especially elderly people. Start calling them, because they are going to want to carry out a conversation with someone. Don't say, when this is over I will do A, B and C. Look at it and say, what can I do right now to start doing something? So when this is over you are way ahead, and you can go run appointments and make money. Don't wait. You have to take action, take that first step to get something going, otherwise you are going to be sitting looking back three years from now saying, well I'm going to start next week. Well I am going to start next week. If you want to change your life and do something, do it.
David: Start now, do it. Guys, wow, this podcast episode has been phenomenal. Tons of gold nuggets. I want to personally thank Scott for coming on, sharing some of his time. Very valuable. Again, I am very grateful for you Scott, thank you for giving me some of you time today, I know it is difficult with all of the things that we're doing in our business. I want to drive some traffic to your event. So guys, if you want to learn-- it's not even learn, I want to change it. If you want to be forced into doing deals, you have to go check this out. The REIMasters.com. Couple of things I want to finish off this episode with guys. You make your money when you buy, you get payed when you sell. We are in the marketing business. Don't forget it, keep telling yourself that. You can do this! It is not necessarily hard, this business is simple. You have to be persistent, and you have to have consistency. Scott, thanks for coming on the show.
Scott: Thanks for having me. Been a lot of fun.
David: Signing off.