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David: All right guys, welcome back to the discount property investor podcast. I am your host David Dodge. Today, I bring you Jay and Annie Adkins. We are going to talk about some creative real estate investing as well as some other things that Jay and Annie specialize in. Jay and Annie, how are we doing today?

Annie: Good.

Jay: We're doing great.

David: Good to have you guys. Let's talk a little bit about the market that you're in and what you guys are working on right now, let's start with that.

Annie: Alright.

Jay: Okay.

Annie: Well, we live east of- just east of Columbus, Ohio so Central Ohio is our market, anywhere from Zanesville to-

Jay: Yeah, we cover about five counties roughly.

Annie: Yeah, west side of Columbus, yeah about that.

David: Okay, that's awesome.

Annie: Yeah, busy busy hahaha.

David: What kinda projects are you guys working on right now? Let's talk about the projects that you guys are doing and what kind of real estate investing are you focusing on?

Jay: Okay, we just sold a- I would call it a slow fix and flip in Naples, Florida. We also invest in the State of Florida virtually- "virtually", we fly down there as well. It's a quick, easy trip down there but we acquired that duplex. It was a high equity list and we acquired that through a phone call, and we were able to get owner financing on that deal- 5 years, no interest, very low monthly payment. We brought in a money partner that had a self-directed 401k account and they supplied us with $80,000 for the down payment and to fix it up, and then we rented it for a year as an Airbnb and then Airbnb tanked there suddenly.

Annie: Briefly, with Covid.

Jay: And so, we just decided that that particular property, we were going to dispose of it and so we sold that one and-

Annie: Closed them on Friday.

Jay: Yeah, closed Friday and what was our net on that one?

Annie: About 60 between all of us.

Jay: About 60 thousand.

David: Sweet. I just touched one up yesterday that will make about 60. It's great, big ones you know, those- that's a little higher than our average flip, you know, we're usually averaging about by 30 to 40 on the high side, you know, and we just got one under contract yesterday, we'll probably clear about 62, something along those lines. Phenomenal job guys, that is great. I know what it takes to find those deals and to get those big checks, so you guys are crushing it, that's great. 2 markets or is there more markets than the two you mentioned?

Annie: Well, we do the majority of our stuff in Ohio because that's where we're at, but we are looking at moving to Florida, I have less than five-year plan.

David: Awesome.

Annie: Our youngest will be 18 in less than 5 years so- and she knows we're already out the door hahaha.

David: Sounds like it, sounds like you guys are already taking advantage of you know, learning that market and your vacations are tax write-offs at this point so-

Annie: Exactly.

Jay: Yes

David: You've got the best of both worlds’ guys. I like it, I like it. So, I want to talk with you guys today about, you know, some of the creative financing that you guys are doing and using. My business is primarily a cash offer for houses, that's basically what we do. I have found that I am lazy, let's put it that way and it just makes sense to just be a cash offer guy and to quit chasing deals, you know. I've kind of found that you know, it's like the 80/20 principle, right? You know, 80% of the deals are going to give you 20% of the profits, they're just going to be a pain, you're going to be chasing them and you end up chasing a deal out of a deal's territory, right? whereas 20% of the deals that come in typically are going to be the 80% of the profit. So, about a year-and-a-half, two years ago, maybe even a little longer ago but not that long you know, a couple years, I kind of had the mindset shift of let's just quit chasing all these deals, it will be way less work and let's just give a crazy amount of convenience to those who are willing to give us a crazy amount of discount and just kinda keep it like that. So, with that being said, you know, there's no right or wrong way to do real estate, you know, which is awesome. There's a million ways, but I'm just kind of lazy and I just said let's just spend a little bit more on our marketing and just kind of chase the bigger deals, but you guys are actually offering a lot more convenience than I am. You know, I'm offering a couple key points, right? I offer cash, I offer quick, and I offer as, and that's really it and I exchange that for a discount, and I know my value. I guess that's kind of the thing that I understood after, you know a couple years is that why would I want to go offer some crazy amount of convenience to somebody when they're not willing to give me a discount, like I- I know my value its convenience, like you know, as an investor, we provide liquidity to the market. That's really it otherwise, the seller would go put it on the MLS and they wouldn't sell it to me, right?

Jay: Yeah.

David: So last year- we're not on pace this year cuz of Covid, but last year we bought around 95 houses and I didn't need to buy any of those houses, not one, but I did because I saw 95 opportunities, right? So, I make that very clear to the seller and I just say hey, here's what I'm willing to pay, hopefully we can do business and you know, I don't chase the deals anymore. But because of that mindset, it's rare that I want to even talk creative with people because I'm really looking for those big discounts, right? But you guys have a whole different approach and again, there's no right or wrong way and that's why I'm happy to have you guys on cuz I just like to just you know, hear different perspectives and different sides of things, but it sounds to me like you guys are making offers that have a lot of different options for people and you're getting creative and you're using terms. So yeah, I yield the floor to you, I want to hear a little bit about that side of your business.

Jay: Awesome. Yeah, we find that there are a lot of people that have a significant amount of equity and- but they don't have the skill set to repair the property. Annie and I also own a construction company so that's pretty convenient for us to be able to come in and rehab properties, but a lot of the sellers also aren't good at screening like most of the creative deals that we pick up are from landlords.

Annie: Yeah, that are just tired of the property itself or tired of the landlord lifestyle kind of thing or whatever you wanna call it. Just worn out and exhausted from having to fix up the house every time somebody moves out and not knowing if they're going to stay for the entire lease or what have you-

David: So, what kind of things are you guys working out with these landlords to make the deal creative?

Jay: We just ask the simple- we try to keep it simple otherwise they get confused and we just ask them, you know, would you be interested in payments for your equity or letting us pay you overtime for the property? Just keep it in simple English like that and if they're receptive to it, then we try to work out a price and the monthly payment that is agreeable for us and for them and we're usually still getting a property discounted as well.

David: Awesome.

Annie: Yeah, I think the last what? 4 rental properties that we've acquired, that we either have as straight rentals or as rent option lease or lease option purchases have been just tired landlords or people that just have a property that they have no idea what to do with at this point and we've offered that as an out to them and it's a win-win for everybody involved.

Jay: Got it, so it sounds like you guys are buying on owner financing. Are you buying on lease option and/or sub 2 as well?

Jay: Yeah, we're usually doing sub 2 or land contract typically.

David: Okay, sub2 and land contract. Good to know.

Jay: Yeah.

David: Now, whenever you guys are acquiring, do you flip these properties? Do you rent these properties? Do you sell them on owner financing? Do you sell them on lease option as well? Are you doing the creative on all of- on not only the front end but also the disposition end?

Annie: Typically, yeah.

Jay: Yeah, Annie and I have basically lease optioned all of those properties.

David: Out, on the sale side?

Jay: Yeah, except one. There's one that's a regular rental to college students, but the rest of them, we have done an option to buy for a tenant buyer and that enables us to get a nice chunk of money down and they're responsible for repairs, so any improvements or anything that they're doing is on their end, and so it keeps it very low cost for us to manage and run our rental portfolio. If they buy it great, we made an awesome profit. We can usually make 35 or 40 on a deal like that instead of, like you said David, typically we'll be seeing 25- 35 thousand on a typical flip.

Annie: Down.

Jay: But in this instance, we can usually get 3-5 thousand down, make 350 to 500 a month cash flow and then at the end, if and when they buy it, we can profit 35 to 40 thousand dollars on it.

David: I love it. How long have you guys been doing this?

Annie: Oh, jeez hahaha. We've been in real estate since 2000 and-

Jay: 2001, right?

Annie: Yeah, but we just started doing the- we haven't been doing the creative stuff that long.

David: How long have you guys been doing the creative stuff?

Jay: We've been doing that about 9- 8 or 9 years.

David: Got it, how many people have executed the lease option on the dispo side?

Annie: Not as many as you would think.

Jay: 3.

David: Yeah, but this brings up a good point because it's a win-win either way.

Annie: Right.

Jay: Yeah.

David: You know, typically- you're building equity and these properties while they're trying to buy it and if they buy it, great. They're paying a premium, but you've offered them a level of convenience like I talked about earlier that's above any bank would offer so that's a win-win, right?

Jay: Yeah.

Annie: Yeah.

David: And if they don't exercise that option, like you said, you got money down, you're cash flowing and it sounds to me like in a lot of these incidences, you didn't even have to buy the property or put your money down. You may even have it on a Sub-2 or on a lease option or an owner finance type of play. So, you guys are doing it a lot different than me, but I think it's great because both of us are finding success with this, so I think that was- that's the reason I approached it the way that I did. It may have been weird on your guys' end for me to ask those questions in that order, but I was getting to the point here and that is that I'm always trying to provide a crazy amount of value to the listeners. So, if you are listening guys and you want to do the cash offer approach, that's great. If you want to do this seller financing sub 2 creative which has a whole different lots of things involved, that's great too. Just kind of figure out what you like to do, find that niche and run with it, right?

Annie: Absolutely.

David: The way I look at it at is you know, I have all these tools in my belt so of course if I see value in a property after I make my cash offer that may work, we'll slide in or we'll even wholesale, That's one of my favorite things to do, is to wholesale that deal to an individual like you guys that you know, I can make a couple grand for basically the referral you know, and then somebody else that's more experienced in the contracts and the terminology as well as the process of you know, maybe lease optioning a property for 3 years, remodeling that property then selling it on a lease option, right? and doing all those things. They may have the systems in place cuz they're doing others and it's easier for them, right? So, I guess the point that I'm trying to make here to the listeners and the viewers is you know, there's so many ways to make a profit in real estate and make it a win-win scenario. That's really what it comes down to is win-win scenario, so I love it guys. So, you guys have been doing this for almost a decade with the creative side, you're having tons of success, you have a portfolio of about thirty, right?

Annie: Uhuh.

Jay: Yeah.

David: Which is amazing and that's- that is awesome. You know, a lot of people that are listening to this, have anywhere between 0 and 4/5 I would say, you know, my average listener has a couple. They don't typically have a lot so when you know, when we can show people that it's possible, that they can get to 30 or 50 or you know, my goal's 150, right. We can get there, it is achievable and it's possible. So, let's talk a little bit about you know some other deals that you guys have done recently. Tell us about the one that you guys just closed on- down in Florida and also let's talk a little bit about some of the marketing that you guys are doing to find these deals, you know, I was talking on the last podcast that I just did right before this one, you know about the little to no money, out of pocket real estate, you know, and there's a catch, you know, nobody wants to talk about the catch but the catch is that it's time and money invested into the marketing, right? The leads aren't free, right? Buying a $700,000 house or controlling it with a contract and selling the paperwork may not cost a nickel, right? You might be able to do that with no- none of your own money, so that's where the little to no money, out of pocket real estate comes in. We do it all the time, but we also spend thousands of dollars a month on marketing, lead generation, right? So, I'm curious to hear what you guys are doing to generate those leads and also, I want to be transparent with the listeners and the viewers, you know, that it's either time or money or both that you have to invest right?

Annie: Yup, absolutely.

David: Doing the deal, right? This is the thing that no one talks about, doing the deal doesn't require a whole lot of a money typically, if any, but getting the deal on your table, that's where the cost comes in.

Jay: Yup.

David: So, what kind of marketing- let's start there, what kind of marketing are you guys doing?

Jay: So, primarily our paid marketing is we're buying lists, okay, and then we're-

David: Where are you buying your lists?

Jay: We have an individual that we buy lists from and I can connect you with him.

David: Why do you use an individual and not a nationwide data distributor?

Jay: Well, this gentleman here has about 20 years of data experience and he is with a company where they primarily pull data initially for auto companies, but they do very specialty lists, like all the way down to- we helped one of our students get a list that was people that own a house within 50 miles of a lake that it's their second home, and they have a net worth of at least $250,000. So, you can- from an individual like that, you can get extremely detailed.

Annie: Drill down lists.

Jay: Drill down lists as opposed to a more generic one that we just purchased before like from ListSource, you know we've bought a number of lists from ListSource before.

Annie: And those leads aren't necessarily bad from ListSource or other companies like that, but they're more generic like Jay said so they're, you know, they're wider used or on more people's lists and specific drilled down-

David: No, that makes perfect sense. I was just curious, I was just-

Jay: Yeah.

Annie: Yeah.

David: I typically get all my lists from Propstream at this point. I used to use ListSource a ton. I basically made the move over to Propstream cuz it's simple and it's easy and you know, I dial in the ones that I want. There are a couple lists, not many, one or two that my virtual assistants will manually build and then we would- we drive for dollars. I think driving for dollars is probably the best and my most favorite way to find my leads because yeah, those houses today may or may not be on the Propstream or the ListSource list. They may or may not be on your lists, right?

Annie: Right.

Jay: True.

David: Typically, you'd build your own and they could be. Like, that's the thing, they may or may not be, right? The odds of them are lower though, right? So, driving for dollars is one of my favorite ways to go out and find property. So, it sounds like you guys are pulling lists, and then what do you do when you get those lists? What's your means of marketing?

Jay: We are skip tracing those folks and then we do cold calls and then we also do some text campaigns as well.

David: Let's talk about that real quick cuz we do it too. I'm just kind of curious on what services you're using, how it's done and like the frequencies. So where were you skip tracing your lists? Let's start there.

Jay: So, the gentleman that we buy the data from also provides phone numbers and emails. Something else to consider that we haven't tried yet is we were thinking about loading the list of Facebook and trying to find a lookalike audience in our area. That's something that we're looking into doing but we have not done that as of yet, but he provides the phone numbers and we load them into Mojo, we have a virtual assistant that calls for us.

David: Yep, Mojo is good. We've used it in the past. Of course, yup. How about the cold texting, you had mentioned that as well? What service do you use for that?

Jay: We have REI simple that we use.

David: RE simply or REI simply?

Annie: REI simple.

Jay: REI simple, it's Joe McCall's version of-

Annie: It's a CRM and-

Annie: Yeah, I forget freedom soft.

Annie: Freedom soft, yeah.

David: Okay, awesome.

Annie: So yeah, it has a CRM, it has texting and email blast capabilities, so we use that, for that portion of it. We have a VA for cold calling.

David: Awesome guys, I love it.

Annie: We drive for dollars and we do bandit signs, and we do all of that stuff too.

David: Yup.

Jay: Yup, bandit signs are still effective.

David: Yup absolutely so you know, I'm very similar. We get our list from Propstream, we do our skip tracing at BatchLeads.

Jay: Okay.

David: I like BatchLeads a lot because it also does our cold texting and it does list stacking, right? So, it does three things.

Annie: Oh.

Jay: Oh.

David: I can get my leads from anywhere, you know, if I wanted to go to List Ability or ListSource versus Propstream, that's fine or even a third party like your guy, right? I used to buy my- I used to get US lead list, but they were just too expensive. I wasn't seeing the return, you know, I just figured more was better and it turned out it was so I'm doing the same thing. I like BatchLeads because it does three things, right? It does the skip tracing, it can push the campaign for the texting and it does list stacking and if you're not familiar with list stacking, I don't like to go out and buy super crazy large lists instead I like to get lots of little lists and then what happens is the software will show you the entries or the names and the addresses that are on multiple lists, so then those are the people that we spend our time really trying to get, right? So, if somebody has high equity but they also, you know have back taxes and maybe code violations, right? They're going to be a lot more likely to sell to me than just high equity, right? So, when they're on multiple lists, it allows you to see- this is the 80/20 principle at its finest here guys.

Jay: Yeah, yeah.

David: So, I love it. If anyone's listening and they want to check out BatchLeads, the owner's a good friend. He's hooked me up with a code to give you guys.

Annie: Oh, nice.

David: Go to BatchLeads.IO/Dave, D-A-V-E.

Jay: Okay.

David: You can try it out for a dollar for 14 days and it gives you 500 text messages as well.

Annie: Nice.

David: So, if anyone's listening and they want to test it out. That's what I use, we also use Mojo and another dialer as well, but it's the same thing right? You guys had mentioned bandit signs, we do bandit signs. I'm staring at about three hundred of them right now.

Jay and Annie laugh 

David: We do radio advertisements, we do direct mail and from time to time we'll do some online stuff. It's getting very expensive with Google AdWords, so we've cut that. Facebook, we've never really had much success with to be honest, but we do the cold calling, the cold texting, the radio, the mailers, the bandit signs. We do all these things because they work, right?

Jay: Right.

David: If you are new and I'm sure you guys can agree and you teach your students the same, but you know, when you are new and you do a bandit sign campaign, you may get a couple calls, you may not get that many, right? You make get a ton and you may not get a deal out of that though, but you got calls, right? and it all comes down to consistency, right?

Jay: Yup.

David: People come to me and they say: does direct mail work? Well yes, of course, you know it's one of my favorite ways to get leads but it's expensive and you know, you got to be consistent with it. So, it's going to work as well as you work it and it's the same with all the other forms of advertising. They all work, it's just are you willing to invest enough to make it work and/or be consistent, you know and continue to do those things. That's why I think radio, guys, is my number one favorite way to advertise.

Annie: I was gonna ask you about that.

Jay: Really?

David: Number one because here's why: it's very easy to be consistent when someone else is doing it.

Annie: Hahaha.

Jay: Yeah, good point.

David: I can't fuck that up. Pardon my language, this is an explicit podcast so we can cuss, but I don't fuck that up. I pay the bill, right?

Annie: Right.

David: So, it's beautiful because it's not list dependent. I

Annie: Yeah.

David: It's really not, so you can look at marketing in a lot of different ways and one way is list dependent or non list dependent, and most marketing is list dependent. Bandit signs are not, television's not, billboards are not, radio falls in that category, it's not list dependent, right? And one of the main things that I teach my students is consistency. I don't care if you can only cold call for 30 minutes a day, but you need to do it 4 to 5 days a week.

Annie: Yup.

David: Otherwise, it's gonna take you 3 months to do a deal. Otherwise, let's try to get you one in two, three weeks or sooner right? It's consistency.

Annie: Yup.

Jay: Exactly.

David: So, the radio takes the failing of consistency out. You just pay the bill, someone else is doing it, they put those ads out there. Another thing that I like about the radio, is it broadcasts so far away, right? So, you know, I'm in the St. Louis market, it's basically 40 or 50 miles in every direction. I don't want those houses out on the perimeter, but guess what? I have a network of people that do, so when those leads come in, it's like boom, here wholesale, right? We always market for houses that we want to buy to fix up or houses that we want to own as rentals, always. We never market for wholesale, however, we do 5 to 10 wholesales a month because we all have a simple philosophy or a simple motto and that is: buy the best, sell the rest.

Annie: Yeah.

Jay: Yeah.

David: Keep the best, another way to word is keep the best, sell the rest.

Annie: Yeah, exactly.

David: It's that simple guys. So, when it comes to marketing for motivated sellers again, I'm not trying to take over here. I want to talk to you guys in a few, you guys, but there's so much value here, right. All marketing works if you're consistent so- and the thing about radio is I don't have a big budget guys. I spend two grand a month on the radio, you know, which may seem like a crazy amount of money to some people and we used to spend 4 or 5 but we've scaled it back and it just you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be a crazy amount of money, but it's enough and especially once that ad is on the radio for 6 months or a year, you don't have to spend a ton because people have started to hear that ad 10, 20, 30 times and they don't have to hear it four times a week, they may only need to hear it once a week to keep you on the top of their mind so love it.

Jay: How long have you done radio David?

David: About a year-and-a-half.

Jay: And how many deals have you got from that source?

David: So, with a $2,000 marketing spend, we are generating about 20 calls per station a week, oh no I'm sorry, 10 call per station a week. So, 20 calls a week, so 2468, that's 80 calls a month that I'm getting for about 2,000 so if you do the math on that 2000 / 80, that's costing me about $25 a phone call, which if you compare that to AdWords, you're going to spend four to five times that typically at least in my market to get a click and that click doesn't- or I should say to get a lead. So, I'm getting four to five times my money. Now, one might also argue that it's more or less targeted. It's fine, in my commercial, in my advertisement, I don't say call me if you have a house that you want to sell. I don't say that, I say call me if you have a house that you need to sell. I want the trashy ones, the tenant won't pay me the rent houses. I'm not marketing for anybody to call me or that I'm renting property. I don't want people to call me that are looking for rentals, that's not the message. The message is literally hey is it on fire? is it falling down? you know, will you take pennies on the dollar for it? Call me and that's the guy, right? That's the message so by zeroing in on the marketing, it definitely helps and to answer your question, I know I've been word vomiting here, but to answer your question, you know, we get you know, several deals a month from our marketing efforts. So, you know, one deal, more than double the triple pays back the marketing and the other two or three that we get is just profit. So, I absolutely love it and again, as long as you pay your bill or have a credit card synced to it, you can't screw this up.

Annie: Right.

David: Record a 30 second or 60 second advertisement and you know, we still hit lists, right? But this is a non list dependent so if somebody hears my ad and they're on one of the lists again, I'm stacking and that's where you find that motivation and if they're not, they still hear it, right? So, it's just another form and you know consistency is really the message, that's the main thing, you know, like with bandit signs or with mail, you got to do it. You can't be lazy, you got to do it, so this automates it so that's why I personally think it's one of the better ways of going about marketing.

Jay: Yeah, I just thought I'd ask cuz-

Annie: We've never done radio, we've talked about it.

Jay: We haven't done it and $2,000 might seem a lot to some of your listeners but if you think about- if you got more than one deal a month, I mean, it's paid for the whole year in one month.

David: Paid for the whole year, right. So, we're looking at anywhere between 25 and 40 dollars a call and you average it out over the good weeks and the bad weeks, right? Let's talk about direct mail, if you send a hundred letters, you know, a hundred letters is going to cost you fifty to sixty bucks. You know, you're going to maybe get one call, maybe. It's 1 to 2%.

Jay: Maybe one call.

David: So, you're actually going to spend a little more on mail than you would on the radio, right? So, AdWords is the most expensive, mails probably next then maybe bandit signs. I found that the cost per lead is one of the cheapest with radio, so just an FYI to anyone listening.

Annie: That's good to know.

Jay: Yeah.

David: It's a great way to get it going and it's a great way to automate your marketing especially for those that maybe will do this part time or trying to quit their job.

Annie: Right, that's a good point.

David: That's the hardest, to be consistent with marketing when you have- I don't even have kids right? But let's say you throw a couple kids in the mix, right? You got a hard time or even a full-time job, you're doing real estate part-time, you got children, there is no freaking time in the day to go hang signs or hand write letters. So, unless you have a budget to do it, it's not getting done. And with radio you can just pay the bill, turn it on, record the ad, and the ad that I use guys, I recorded two sets, one for each station with different numbers so I can of course track where that's coming from, but that's it, you know, 18 months off of one ad, it just keeps repeating. I don't have to keep doing additional work, so I highly suggest you looking into it.

Jay: Awesome.

David: It's a great way to market, love it. So, before we wrap up today here, let's talk a little bit about you know, what you guys are focusing on and what you're working on and also how people can get in touch with you.

Annie: Yup, okay cool.

Jay: Awesome.

Annie: Well, we are focusing on, for 2020 since it's been so crazy hahaha, since the jump of it, we have decided to focus on our coaching program more than anything but by the same token, by focusing on our coaching program, we're also focusing on wholesaling some deals to students of ours, if we don't find it good enough- not good enough but-

Jay: We partner with a lot of students on their first few deals.

David: Yeah, you wanna make sure that the value is being provided. I get that.

Annie: Exactly, yeah.

David: We do that with our students as well. It's actually one of the best ways to help the student too because you know, once they see you do it and take 40, 50% of the profit, it motivates them to not want to pay again and I'm not saying that in a negative way. This is actually a good thing, I did it in the beginning. I brought partners in my first wholesale deal, the very first deal that I did was a two-house deal and there was a $24,000 profit split and I got 12, right?

Jay: Yeah.

Annie: Yeah.

David: Great deal, great first deal and it motivated me to go find a buyer on my own, right?

Jay: Yeah.

Annie: Hahaha.

David: I wasn't upset about paying 12 grand, I made 12 grand.

Annie: Right.

Jay: Yeah.

David: But the next deal I did, I didn't have to do that so it's like holding hands. Joint venturing is one of the best ways to help students. Let's hear about the program guys, I'm excited to hear about what you guys are offering and you guys have a lot of information and a lot of knowledge about all these creative things which I think will help a lot of people.

Jay: Yeah, thanks. We have JayandAnnieAdkins.com is our website and we have training for the stuff that we specialize in, the fix and flip, how to acquire rentals and properly fix them and screen them, but we do a unique format. Ours is more of a mastermind group and we actually meet three times a year and help each other with you know, everybody in the group helps one another with their businesses and we focus on not just real estate but life bills also. You know reading books and working out and just keeping yourself in top performance.

David: So, it sounds like you guys have a coaching-mastermind mix.

Annie: Yeah, we do.

Jay: Yes.

David: I like it, it's a great approach, you know. It's more than just getting somebody in and giving them all the information and then kind of letting them go because often times, there's no accountability there, but by having the mastermind and building a relationship, it's a better win-win in my opinion so I love that. I know a lot of people that are moving to that kind of approach. I'm in several masterminds. I'm in some that are just like that and I'm in some others and they both have their values, right?

Jay: Yeah.

Annie: Absolutely.

David: But I really like the ones where we get together and we meet with the people that are in the group, you know, even if it's only once a year, but two three four times a year are awesome. So yeah, love that, that's great. How can people find that? They go to JayandAnnieAdkins.com?

Annie: Yes, you can do that. We're on Facebook, we're on twitter, we're all over the place.

Jay: Yup, we're on Facebook. We get a lot of deals from Facebook, that's our great free organic way to get deals, just post about real estate on there and we just post about our deals and we get a lot of referrals that way.

David: I love it, I love it guys. What are you guys working on right now? Are you trying to build the portfolio? Are you working on trying to find that flip? Are you really just trying to secretly take vacations to Florida? Like what's- what are you focusing on this week? I'm just kidding.

Annie: Well, this week is the vacation to Florida, we leave on Friday.

David: I'm leaving Wednesday, so I'll be down there with you guys. I love it.

Annie: But for 2020, we're focusing more on education, just educating anybody that is interested really and then obviously we offer the high-level mastermind that we just spoke of but-

Jay: Yup, we're doing flips.

Annie: And we're always looking for deals, that's what I was going to say. We're always looking for flips.

Jay: We just got a deal in Columbus that we're going to fix and flip.

David: I love it.

Annie: And really any deal that we come across, we kind of look at it and say, you know, is this a flip project? Is this a buy and hold project? You know what I mean, it kinda just depends on what the house and the situation and the seller's-

Jay: Neighborhood.

Annie: Yeah, we kinda just take all of that into consideration so it's always, we're looking for a deal but what if that deal's gonna end up being a flip or a buy and hold or a wholesale, it just kind of depends on the property.

David: It just kinda depends, yup, and I love it. You know, we have students that will bring us deals all the time.

Annie: Yup.

David: And we'll actually pay them a wholesale fee cuz we may want to deal, right? or they may not see deals in deals, right? That maybe came out right, it maybe sounds confusing, but they may not see a deal in a property, let's put it that way.

Jay: Yeah.

David: And you know, we may or vice versa so joint venturing in the beginning is one of my favorite ways to help people and teach them and I can see that you guys are obviously doing that to. So, guys if you are listening, if you are watching, go over to JayandAnnieAdkins.com, learn more about the coaching program, learn more about their mastermind and it sounds like they have a good hybrid of both of those, the coaching and mastermind. It sounds like something that would really benefit and be of great value if you are looking into the creative financing approach. I think it's absolutely phenomenal, I love it. Guys, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I'm grateful for your time, I'm grateful for the value that you were able to share and add to the show today, anything you guys want to end with? Any parting words for our audience today?

Jay: Stay at it, just keep making offers.

Annie: Consistency.

Jay: Tell everybody that you are a real estate investor.

Annie: Yeah, don't be shy.

David: That's right guys, stay at it, consistency is the name of the game. This business is incredibly simple, but it's not easy and again, I'm very blunt about this, I'm transparent. It's incredibly simple but it's not easy. It can often be difficult, but getting yourself a coach, working with another investor, partner and JV-ing makes it not hard. It makes it easy and then it becomes simple and easy, and that's when it becomes fun, right? When you're getting paid, having fun and you're able to teach others, I absolutely love it. Guys, thanks again for coming on the show. Again, grateful for your time, grateful for your knowledge and your value. We will be back with another episode in 2 days. Thanks for listening guys.

Annie: Right, thanks for having us.

Jay: Thanks David.

David: Signing off.

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