Today David and Brysan will talk about their mistakes and experience that they have encountered in wholesaling that you should look out for and avoid. Use their knowledge and experience to minimize your expenses and start out properly in Wholesaling.
Welcome back to the Discount Property Investor podcast. Our mission is to share what we have learned from our experience and the experience of others to help you make more money investing like a pro. We want to teach you how to create wealth by investing in real estate, the discount property investor way. To jumpstart your real estate investing career, visit freewholesalecourse.com, the most complete free course on wholesaling real estate ever. Thanks for tuning in.
David: All right, welcome back to the show everybody. I got Brysan DuVall, one of my new co-hosts joining me this afternoon. Brysan, welcome back buddy. Good to see you my friend, it's good to see you.
Brysan: Let's get it, let's get it. Drop some nuggets today.
David: Let's drop some nuggets on these people, that's what I'm talking about. Alright, today we are going to focus on the mistakes that we have made in our wholesaling careers and endeavors and we could- I was just telling Brysan, man we can talk about this forever man.
David: There's a lot of mistakes that we have made. I don't know what I just clicked, like a hundred windows are open now which is kind of crazy.
Brysan: Yeah, it's all good.
David: Let me get this thing cleaned up a little here.
Brysan: There we go.
David: Here we go. All right.
Brysan: Yeah man, I don't even know where to start. I think I got a couple of things that I definitely want to cover but I just thought about like a hundred as we start to say that. I'm like wait a second, I just thought about 3 that I forgot about like giving lock boxes to just everyone. Lockbox codes.
David: Well, let's make a list here as we go.
Brysan: But yeah, one of the biggest things that- and I think is- I actually went live with my buddy Claudio earlier today. We mentioned that you know, as beginners or people that are struggling to get traction, a lot of that has to do with stopping and starting, you know, like going in, going hard, not seeing results and you're stopping and pivoting, you know what I mean?
David: Are you talking about specifically in the marketing or just everything? Really, everything.
Brysan: I mean, in the beginning it's all marketing though. You know, so it's like you're stopping, your starting, you aren't getting deals, you're not getting the lead flow, but it's- I have another buddy in the Atlanta market and he was like yeah, you stop marketing and then like you take a break or you do something else and it's like you just restart the sale cycle all over again, you know, cuz it's like those leads that were warm are just back to cold now. They don't remember you, you didn't even build rapport on a- you hit them on a cold text or a cold call then you don't market to them or you're not really following up with them consistently, you call them back, they've already talked to so many people, your a cold- it's a cold lead again, so the sale cycle just starts from the beginning. Cold call over again, and you spent all that money marketing and really you know, now in retrospect is like, you know, just a lead in the Podio. I just take that as a win, you know.
David: Yeah, me too.
Brysan: Like boom, pipelines built. Cool, that maybe six months, that maybe 7 months, that may be 10 months, that maybe a year.
Brysan: You know, but that's it. I got somebody in my pipeline, doesn't matter if I call him and you know, we see people closing deals on Instagram or on all this stuff on social media, over the phone and that's great but that doesn't happen most of the time.
Brysan: You know most of the time we have to have FaceTime with the seller.
David: Yeah so Brysan, we do 5 to 10 deals a month, not all of them are big deals.
David: A lot of these are little tiny deals, you know, I'm not trying to gloat about that. It is what it is you know, and the average deal we do is about 4 to 6 months. So just getting the lead in the Podio is half the- or not even Podio, into any of your CRM's.
Brysan: Right, I just use Podio, right.
David: That's what you're using of course, I use it as well amongst about 5 others which I'm trying to consolidate, but yeah getting the lead into the system is really just the beginning. It's following up and it's making those offers, so starting and stopping with the marketing and really just anything I think is a mistake I've made as well. One of the things to kind of build on this topic right here is Mike and I always are wanting to try to do some sort of automation in our business and there is a lot of downside to try and to over automate. We call it like getting into a rabbit hole, you know like, we'll be like we should be able to automate this. We may spend a whole week on it and it may work, it may not but then it's like at the end of the week, you're like man I just like gave up a whole week of marketing and talking to sellers and making appointments and sending offers that I could have been doing, so man, I cannot agree with you more.
Brysan: Yeah man, its-
David: When you say starting and stopping.
Brysan: Yeah, and even yeah like you said even implementing and automating like you said that has to be- it's almost like it's got to be an after-hours task, like you got to do that at 10 to midnight and on the weekend bro. Yeah, not during times like this. It's like yeah, I mean technically this- we are on paid time right now and we're doing a podcast, you know, we've had a productive morning so I'm definitely down for this. I think another thing yeah, stopping and starting, that was another thing we talked about earlier is like a lot of people we complain about- We complain about not getting traction or not getting deals fast enough but it's like you know, like a lot of times we just- it's a leadgen problem. At the end of the day like this whole business, we already know like you used to say, we're not in the real estate business, we're in the marketing business.
David: We're in the people business and the marketing business.
David: More so the marketing business, yeah.
Brysan: Yeah we're the- you know, our inventory happens to be houses, that's it. You know so if we don't even have the lead flow, it's like, you know, that's the problem for any beginner. It's never like okay, I just- I'm making so many offers, you know, no one's getting- no one's accepting the offer. It's like no you don't have enough motivated sellers, that's the problem, you know, it's pretty simple.
Brysan: So, you know, and that I think leads to that issue is the stopping and starting, you know, you're saying this doesn't work- this marketing thing is- let me pivot and do text messaging. Let me pivot and just do bandit signs.
David: Yeah, I had a really shitty day cold calling so like let's not cold call for two weeks. That's a terrible idea.
David: Right? Like just stick with it and be consistent. So, stopping and starting I think is- I mean that's probably gonna sum up most of the things we're gonna talk about.
Brysan: Yeah, pretty much.
David: Not sending offers.
David: You know like, that was one of the biggest mistakes I made in the beginning was I was scared to send offers. I was scared to get an offer accepted bro, in the beginning but it's just like- it's like oh my God, like what do I do now? You know and it's like- that's like- you're like 3/4 of the way through a deal at that point.
David: I wouldn't say half cuz a lot of this business is marketing and following up and setting appointments and making offers but like yeah, that's like 3/4 give or take of the way to the deal when the contract comes back signed but it's like, okay now I got more marketing to do. So in the beginning, if you are struggling with sending offers or you're having analysis paralysis, I want to say one thing really quick just to sum this part up, but when you work through a wholesale deal, it's like five steps, right? It's not necessarily easy, but it's incredibly simple. So what are those five steps? Well, you market to motivated sellers, you make offers and run appointments on properties, you get a contract on a property and then market that contract and then you take it to the closing table. So if you work that backwards, in order to get to the closing table, you have to have sold something. In order to have sold something, you have to have inventory, so the contract is like the most important part of the entire business.
Brysan: You don't have a business without it.
David: You don't have a business without it so one of the biggest mistakes I've made was not sending enough offers or having analysis paralysis towards sending offers because you can't wholesale a property if you don't have control of properties, and you get it by sending offers.
David: Big one.
Brysan: Yeah, its big.
David: ARV's and repairs. So obviously I've been in this full-time six, seven years. I still sometimes struggle with knowing what the right ARV is and am I overestimating or am I underestimating. Same with repairs and I've just kind of learned that I'm not perfect and even if my numbers are off, that's why we have a due diligence period, to make sure that the ARV that we initially thought was there or that the repairs that we are estimating are right and I no longer have that fear, I haven't for a long time but in the beginning man, and that was probably the reason why wha- why I wasn't sending the offers.
David: Cuz I'm like is my ARV right? Are my repairs too low? are they too high? Quit worrying about that stuff guys, literally stop worrying about it, send offers, you have a due diligence period with CYA clauses for a reason and it's just to double check your work and/or market that property.
David: Love it.
Brysan: Both at the same time and yeah, it's- even on the not sending offers part, that kind of goes back to like the stopping and- stopping and starting marketing because when you don't want to send an offer or you're like scared to send a low offer, it's usually because like you want to- you're a motivated buyer essentially. You know what I mean? You're a motivated buyer where you're just like, you know, I want them to accept this and it's like, you know the best offers we know are like uncomfortable to make, you know. It's like if you're not uncomfortable making an offer like you're too high, bro.
David: If you're not a little bit embarrassed about your offer- I mean, not to be full blown like holy cow but if you're not a little bit embarrassed about your offer, it's too high. So I was on with a student earlier Brysan and we were running through an example MAO formula and we got our ARV multiply it by the buyer discount rate. We subtracted our repairs, we even added a 10K wholesale fee within that scenario, you minus it out. It's on that side of the equation. Long story short, our MAO was 90k and I was like, I would offer 80-82, maybe even 75, like go low but you never want to start with your MAO. So I think that's another thing we can add on the list of mistakes that we've made is never start with MAO because it is so hard to get a seller to come down once you've made them a number, an offer, but if you come in really low and I can- I call it anchoring like anchor really low.
Brysan: Absolutely, price anchor.
David: Yeah, price anchor, anchor really low and then you're always going to have the ability to come up over time but if you don't- you know if you go in too high in the beginning, you're shooting yourself in the foot. So never start with your MAO and that's your maximum allowable offer know that that's where you have to end. In my example with my student was if you're MAO is 90, you go at 80, right? Your MAO is 90, that's the most you can pay, but you never lead with that number. That's like the 3 month or the 6 month later number or maybe it's three hours later who knows what level of motivation, but that's the later number, but if you lead with 80 and I said what happens if they accept that? And he's like boom my wholesale fee went from 10 to 20 grand like exactly. So you always want to go in low and that's okay to be a little embarrassed, I'm embarrassed all the time.
David: Hell, I don't care, I just- screw it.
David: Next, so I want to talk about a couple of these cuz we can literally talk for days about all the mistakes that we've made.
Brysan: Yeah, so much, right.
David: I think this kinda goes with the first one, you know, starting and stopping, but I refer to three pillars. I don't know if you've heard me talk about this Bryson, if you guys have listened to the show or watched, I've done a couple episodes recently on the three pillars, but I think that there's three things in wholesaling that are what I consider the money-making activities.
David: Whole- wholesale. Marketing, that's the name of the business right? Marketing, making those offers and following up. Those are the three things.
David: So, the mistake that I've made is letting go of those three things and again, chasing that software automation or that new phone system or this or that, and if you get away from marketing, making offers and following up on those offers or people that are essentially interested and have raised their hand because they want to sell, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Huge mistake. Focus on those three money-making activities before you do anything else and like, you said it really well. If you want to do that extra stuff, do it on the off hours, do it in the evening when you're sitting on the couch, like it may be too late to call somebody, it's 10oclock at night.
David: Focus on automations and systems and stuff like that but during the daylight hours when you are ready to sit down and work in your business, not on but in, focus on those three things and I've- man, I've gone down rabbit holes that have lasted two months where it's like man I'm looking back and I'm like holy cow, like this is really great but no ones using it because we're not doing any marketing and it always circles back to market to motivated sellers, make a ton of offers.
Brysan: Yup, that's it man. That's huge, focus on the three pillars. What I noticed in getting feedback from other, you know, high net worth- high performing people, you know, yourself, you know a couple others that I know in the same business is like what I started to realize with conversations with them is that me and a lot of other beginners, I mean, you know, I still feel like a beginner.
David: You're not really a beginner, bro you've been in this business for a minute.
Brysan: I have, I have, I've had some experience in it but it just feels like- cuz I haven't been consistent until really like this year, you know, so that's where I kind of like, feel like I really started, you know, is with the consistency so- but I started to realize it's like I mean, I just got cold callers what, they're on like their 40th day with me and it's like bro, like I scaled too slow. You know, like it is-
David: You know what though? That's a better problem than scaling too fast and running out of money or not knowing what you're doing, but hindsight's always 20/20, you know.
Brysan: Yeah, but it's interesting to see that. It's like bro, you know, I talked to a guy Aaron Bevins. He's a- he's in San Antonio market, really good friend of mine, kills it, part of his accountability group as well. So he, you know, he was talking to me and like we're talkin and I'm like, you know, he's asking about money coming into my business and I'm like yeah, man, I got like 50k in my business account and he's like so what in the world are you doing bro? Like, and I'm cold calling five hours a day, you know and one of my cash buyers like I get- I just sold him a deal and he was calling me and calling me, I was like, yeah, I was just on the phone with the seller, I was on the dialer. He's like the dialer? He's like what are you doing? and I'm like I was cold calling.
David: I'm trying to find you leads bro.
Brysan: I'm looking harder and he's like bro.
David: He's like man.
Brysan: He's like bro, you- this is not how to do it bro. This is not how to do it.
David: There's a better way.
Brysan: Yeah, there's a better way cuz you got to realize it's like, you know, something like cold calling, you got to do it in the beginning if you don't have the budget, that's fine.
David: So, I wanna just talk about that for one second.
Brysan: But that is-
David: So, you said I didn't scale quick enough which is totally fine however, there was so much value.
Brysan: For sure.
David: For you hitting those phones and being in the trenches and setting those appointments and you're still setting appointments and sending the offers but you've outsourced it to somebody else and I have a lot of new students right now that I'm on boarding and I tell them listen, I don't want you to do this forever. That's not the goal, the goal is to outsource it to somebody for four, five, six bucks an hour that can do this, you know all day long for you, right?
Brysan: It's a low performing ROI.
David: It's hard to train somebody that you don't know what you're doing and you don't want to get somebody lining up all these appointments for you if you're scared to make a- to go run them.
Brysan: Very true.
David: Or scared to run- or send the offer, so on so forth, so- in time.
David: At the right time, right right.
Brysan: There's definitely like yeah, take that with a grain of salt. It was just like for me personally, I realized I could have done it sooner, that's what I mean.
David: I love it.
Brysan: You know, so it's cuz we look at you know, cold calling in itself has a really low ROI, you know, on your time.
David: It's a slow process.
David: Right, and again, just cuz you get someone motivated, doesn't mean it's gonna be a deal. It could take 3 years, 6 months to make- to justify your offer as being fair not low but really it's in fact both.
David: It's still fair, right?
Brysan: Absolutely man.
David: I love that.
Brysan: Ands I think the bad part of it is that now I'm in a place where I have to relinquish control and you know, I'm used to doing everything and it's a little bit- it's you know, it's a mindset adjustment.
Brysan: To let, you know, let go of the vine and you know start to delegate and scale a business, so-
David: I think the majority of our mistakes come from a lack of consistency. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that. Not all, but the majority of them really do. So, one of the mistakes that I made Brysan in the beginning and I'm gonna say like probably like first like two, maybe even three full years of my investing career full-time, I was playing favorites with my buyers and I want to say this-
Brysan: Ooh, I still do that. I still do that a lot.
David: Yeah, and I wanna say this was a mistake- It's okay because here's the trade-off, it's convenience. Just like we offer the sellers convenience in exchange for a discount, that's all we do. Come on, let's be real.
David: We're just making our life really convenient and we're demanding a discount. If I can't get at least 20, 25% discount, I'm not interested, goodbye, right? But in the beginning, I was-
Brysan: You're really clear about that.
David: I'm very clear about it, yeah.
Brysan: Like, on the first call. He's like I'm not the guy for you.
David: I don't pay retail, I disqualify myself before they give me the chance, but that's okay cuz it's a transparency thing and if I should come back later, I let him know like there's a reason why I'm coming back to you, you don't have a better- I need a better price or longer time or-
Brysan: Yeah, you still leave it open for follow up all the time.
David: I always do, of course. But you know, playing favorites with my buyers and there's- again, there's the , you know, both sides of that wall. One side is like if I know this guy buys and he's consistently buying, is this gonna be easy for me to line this up or assign it or double close with him? However, your buyers if you start playing favorites, they're going to see that and they're gonna start taking advantage of you, and/or you could have probably gotten more money elsewhere. So over the last couple years, I'm not saying that I don't favorite certain people, because of course I still do but at this point it's highest and best. So if one of my good buyers sends me an offer day one and it's a decent offer, I'll say thank you for sending the offer and I'm going to wait until I get a couple more, and they said well why don't you just counter it? And it's like cuz I'm going to be shooting myself in the foot if I get a higher one. I'll counter it when no other offer comes in. I'm not in a rush man, not in a rush.
Brysan: Nice day, yeah.
David: Yeah, and because of that, now our wholesale spreads have averaged higher over the last two or three years versus the previous two or three of the call it six years I've been in the game, because we don't play favorites anymore.
Brysan: Adds up though.
David: It adds up and we work hard.
Brysan: Every year, time [inaudible], yeah.
David: We work extremely hard. You know, if we're not the ones on the callers, we're managing the people that are are. We're the ones running all the appointments and sending all the offers typically. I don't have my VA's do that even though I probably should at some point, but I just want to be in control.
David: You know once I start exiting the-
Brysan: They could do it.
David: They could.
Brysan: I mean, you're like [inaudible].
David: Yeah, of course but I like having that little bit of control.
David: So playing favorites, I think was one of the the big mistakes. I mean let's take it way way back to the very beginning. Analysis paralysis I think is a huge one, and like I get it. People are scared to do the marketing, they're scared to get on the phone. They're really scared to make those offers but like in hindsight, if you go into a wholesale transaction with a) the right mindset and b) like the right level of transparency, there's really nothing to be that scared of.
Brysan: Not at all.
David: You know what I'm saying?
Brysan: Just a little bit of rejection and a couple uncomfortable conversations. That's really it you know.
David: And I think a lot of it is well, how can I act like I'm a cash buyer when I'm not a cash buyer? Well, don't say that you are a cash buyer, say that you and your partners are.
David: Structure the sentence.
Brysan: Leverage other people's confidence.
David: That's what I'm saying.
Brysan: That's what I- I still do that to this day.
David: Me too, but just choose your words wisely and like, in the beginning, this is very- this is a good point. In the beginning man, I used to hate calling a seller and being like sorry, but I can't close on the date that we agreed because I wasn't able to find a partner or whatever reason and now it's like if I have to make that call, it's like I have zero remorse or anxiety because I've lined it up from the beginning to say listen, I buy a lot of houses and because of that I have to bring a partner in on every single one so my purchase contract that I'm sending you or that you've signed is contingent on me finding a partner and I'm so transparent about that so later when I have to make those calls which is rare but it happens you know, but I just say listen, I told you from the get-go I need a partner, I wasn't able to find one however I'm not going away unless you want me to. I'm still working for you.
Brysan: Yeah, ball's in your court.
David: Ball's in your court so I either need more time or I need a better price and hopefully both.
Brysan: Right, little bit of both.
David: Hopefully both, and I've done that 3, 4, 5 times where I'm going back to the seller, hey I need another couple grand or I need another two weeks, but again I'm not regret- I don't have that remorse of calling them or even that anxiety because I've done it the right way from the beginning, not misleading or hiding information them. I don't say I'm a wholesaler, let's be honest but at the same time, I say I need a partner, period. So if I can't find one-
Brysan: I say I close only with private money or something that lets them know that I'm not alone on this.
Brysan: So you know, so yeah the more transparent you are, it just like you said, it saves your ass in the end.
Brysan: Really does.
David: So one of the mistakes that I've made not necessarily specific to wholesaling, but like flipping and rental properties is over rehabbing. And you know, if you're just a wholesaler, you won't have this problem, but if you are- if you do decide to become a landlord or want to do some fix and flips, over rehabbing is one of the biggest mistakes that I think I've made in my investing career if I was like to go big picture. Because when you over rehab a property, you're not necessarily increasing the ARV. It's very diminishing returns. Once you hit your ARV, you know, because if everyone sees that a house in the neighborhood sells for $175 a square foot and you're asking to 225 of a foot, a) it might not appraise, b) you know, it's like well, I could go next door and get one for 175 bucks a foot, you know, so I think that's probably one of the biggest mistakes that I've made to date is over rehabbing and-
Brysan: Yeah, it'll cost a lot.
David: And I don't want to say anything negative about my business partner Bill cuz that's not my intent, but I will say this, that guy surprises and impresses me every week because he is like the anti over rehabber. He's like oh shit, it looks fine, leave it and I'm like no, you gotta come over here and put some mulch down, trim this tree here, man like this- and he's like don't worry about it, it's fine it's fine and guess what happens every single time? They sell.
Brysan: He knows.
David: He knows, right.
Brysan: OG in the game.
David: OG in the game and I keep telling myself man like I'm embarrassed to like put this on the market and like it needs countertops still or something crazy and he's like don't worry about it man. We're gonna list it, we're gonna sell it and sure enough, every time I'm like holy cow.
Brysan: Yeah, you guys buy them right. That's the thing, that's what Bill knows.
David: You buy them right, you [inaudible]. So, speaking of buying it right, that's another mistake that I've made is overpaying for a deal.
David: Overpaying for one.
Brysan: Oh my goodness, being a- there's nothing worse as a wholesalers feeling like a motivated buyer. Oh my god, there's nothing worse but I really think it's hard to be like that if you- if you're struggling with the lead flow, you're struggling with consistency, offer making, you're like I want to entice this person to accept my offer, you know, when really you're making pure offers, you're making only offers that work and a lot of them.
Brysan: And we just need a couple to be accepted, that's it. It's just a numbers game, get them out, you know, so that analysis paralysis man that's crazy like [inaudible].
David: It's all just in your head though.
Brysan: It's so deep bro.
David: It's a made up fear that we have when- man, I hate to talk about students but there's a lot of value there. SO, one of my students goy a property under contract, it was in Baton Rouge. He's name is Jamal, great guy and on our call last Thursday, he was like man, he was like I overpaid for this, the seller told me to never contact him again, like it didn't necessarily end the best but he was like, but that was the best lesson I've learned to date.
David: He's like because I was scared to send the contract and you were like just do it man, what's the worst that can happen? The worst that's going to happen is you're going to piss somebody off, so what? Your goal is to help them.
David: So either you didn't go into this with the right mindset of I'm trying to help you or you have a little bit to learn about the transparency and he was like Dave, he was like I could tell you were kind of getting frustrated with me calling, asking you a million questions and I'm like yeah because you keep worrying about the what-ifs and that was one of my biggest struggles in the beginning when I hired my coach five, six years ago was what if they do this? What if they do that? And he literally at the time was like: you are not allowed to ask me anymore questions.
Brysan: Yeah, you're dumb.
David: It's like whoa, you know, like take a step back and he was like: until you have a property under contract, then you can call me, ask me a million questions.
Brysan: That's it man.
David: Well guess what I did over the next two weeks? I quit worrying about those what ifs and I was like f it, I'm just gonna start sending contract to anybody and everybody that raises their hand to say that they're interested.
Brysan: Everybody. Everybody gets an offer, I think man cuz I- so many people will message me, you know, they have a property they're interested in, maybe they're interested in terms all this stuff and I'm like you're analyzing the deal before it's even a deal. Like we haven't even talked to the person.
Brysan: It's like that was an hour out of your day right there.
David: Right, right.
Brysan: So what's the ARV's in this area? What do you think about- do you have a buyer for this? I'm like, is it under contract
David: Right. So Travis, you know Travis, he's my main acquisition guy. He comes in and I'm not- we just have a different way of working leads, but he always wants to kind of like review it and I'm like fuck that.
Brysan: Always, before.
David: I'm like no no no, call him up, we'll review it whenever it's ringing or whenever they're on the phone.
Brysan: Absolutely. You don't even know they're gonna answer.
David: You don't even know they're gonna answer or their motivation.
Brysan: You went through Propstream.
David: Yeah, and again, there's no right or wrong way. I'm just the one that's just-
Brysan: No, that's wrong. That's the wrong way. No, I will not cosign that.
David: But I'm with you though.
Brysan: It's wrong. You're wasting time, get them on the phone.
David: But it's like, get them on the phone because their motivation may have changed for the worst but it also may change for the better where they could be like I am so glad you called me.
David: You said you were gonna send me a contract on Tuesday, I haven't got it yet. Well it's like check your spam or maybe I didn't send it, maybe I need to.
Brysan: Yeah, all that man.
David: So, I love that.
Brysan: It's just yeah people, I mean so many things like you know, where would- where do you start? Who do I look at? Who do I find on YouTube? Who do I- I'm like bro, any of them.
Brysan: Like I mean, if you follow directions, I could recommend a thousand of them-
David: Just start doing something.
Brysan: -that I don't know. Just go on there, if they're telling about marketing, cold calling, cool pick one and go for it.
David: Love it man.
Brysan: Whatever matches your budget, you know, so.
David: So, over rehabbing was one of them, over paying for a property which you know, I still do guys I'm-
Brysan: It still happens, like I don't want anyone to think they're like, just because someone has a little bit more experience like we all still have to renegotiate sometimes or we overlook something or we didn't realize something about the area, you know. Things like in St. Louis like Coldwater Creek, weird things that impact, you know property values, you know flood zones, where you're like oh shit, I didn't even check that. You realize this place is in a flood zone or whatever it may be. So, it happens but just being strategic about, you know, not placing yourself in that position if you can avoid it, you know?
David: Right. I think in the beginning, and this goes a little bit with lack of consistency and analysis paralysis, but when it comes to marketing, there's 50 plus ways. I built a mind map actually on it, 50 plus ways to find motivated sellers and all of them work. And in the beginning, I was like well, I'm going to go out on you know Tuesdays and Thursdays and I'm gonna put bandit signs out and I'm going to call for an hour or two on Mondays and Wednesdays and I'm going to do a little bit of direct mail, and that was one of the mistakes I made is I was trying to do too many things and then what ends up happening is I may be consistent for a week or two, but then I fall off and I'm like- and all of a sudden it becomes very overwhelming. You know, I haven't done any marketing for 4, 5 days and I really should go out and do this but I should do that and my two cents is marketing is simple, you just got to do it, so keep it consistent, keep it simple. Start with one thing.
Brysan: Go deep.
David: Go deep, don't go wide, go deep. Don't try to do 4 or 5 things, do one. So right now, and I've done all of them, you've done probably most of them too. I've done them all , I've done radio ads, 've done bandit signs, I'm doing cold calling and cold texting right now. I've done hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of direct mail over the- over my last 5-6 years and you know, typically we try to focus in on two or three even though there's 50 different ways. Two or three, so right now were doing cold calling and cold texting very very hard. I have some radio ads that play from time to time, they kind of cycle on and off and that's it. I'm not trying to go out and do bandit signs and there's nothing wrong with that. If that's what you want to do, just do it and do it well, so I think that-
Brysan: I would do it if I get to- I actually might do that, little street team of bandit signs out there.
David: Or driving for dollars, like there is so many different ways to go about finding these leads, just don't feel like that you need to learn them all, and that was one of the things I struggled with in the beginning was you know, I need to be doing three or four of these things a week. Well, if you're good and consistent, that's great, but it's hard to be consistent when your new, so just pick one. I would go as far as say don't find- don't even do two, pick one.
Brysan: I think so bro.
David: Start there, go deep like you said and guess what? Once you get the consistency down, then you can add the second one or you can outsource that first one to go with it.
Brysan: Yeah, or supplement it, you know.
David: Supplement it, right.
Brysan: Whatever you don't hit on the calling, you could text, something simple instead of like-
David: Yeah, this business is simple, just don't- and that's the problem, people are complicated.
Brysan: Super complicated.
David: Super complicated.
Brysan: I am myself.
David: Me too, sometimes I wake up and I'm like I don't want to do any of this. I get it, right? But the business is simple, it's so simple. Find a seller that's motivated, send them an offer, get control, go run the appointment, you may have done that before or after the offer, doesn't matter. Get the photos, now take those photos to the internet, your phone or your computer and put them online and market this property for sale. Find your buyer, connect the buyer and the seller at a title company and you get paid. That's it, that's the whole business and people, including me, a part of it, I get it, we complicate things.
Brysan: I mean, I still get analysis paralysis about some other marketing that I'm going to try to do or whatever I'm like should I do this? I analyze it versus the current situation. What's the potential ROI if I change it and I'm like, bro like, you know? Either you're go- like do you want to experiment with it and find out or what, what's going on? So I- it's a different thing but it's the same type of avoidance in a way, you know, so.
David: So hey, real quick, let's talk about a couple questions cuz like we got to wrap up here in a few minutes.
David: Jamie Buck said tips about learning your market better and the best list to pull, I live in ATL. So, actually just- I'm onboarding a student that lives in Atlanta right now and the best list to pull in any market is going to be high equity absentees and/or vacants, and a lot of times a high equity absentee is a vacant property, not always but it's typically is, right?
Brysan: A lot of them.
David: And you know Mike and I bought a hundred houses last year. Brysan, you've done like 40 or 50 wholesales at this point too. You know, 75% of the houses I buy are vacant, literally and would you agree? Maybe a little lower than that? 65-70% but aren't the majority?
Brysan: Yeah, a lot of them yeah. I'd say about- yeah, at least 60% yeah let's say yeah yeah yeah.
David: 51%, okay let's go at 51. The majority are vacant.
Brysan: Yeah, it's a majority. Absolutely.
David: Right, so if you are new and you are like- do not have an analysis paralysis on this, okay? Any list you get is better than no list.
David: You cannot disagree with me on that.
David: So Jamie, I don't know you, you seem like a great person but if you don't have a list, get one.
David: You're going to be doing better than you were because you have something. So, what list would I- what's my go-to list? High equity absentees or vacants, start there.
Brysan: Tips on learning your market better, connect with other investors, you know, see what okay, you're a landlord? So what do landlords buy here? You know, go to meet ups, go to your online investment groups, ask the questions, I don't know like. Our Investment Group here in St. Louis is really like really valuable as far as selling a deal or asking a question. You know what I mean? If you ask a genuine question, people with experience and that have guidance around that will absolutely you know, answer it or you know, help you figure it out so I'm guessing Atlanta has probably has some decent Facebook groups you can be involved in or meetups. Go to a meet-up, see what exactly a fix and flipper needs, you know, where are they buying? What's- talk to realtors and say what areas are like changing? I'm an investor. They're going to think that you're going to use them, you may not ever contact them again. Say hey, I need to find out what's going on the market, where should I be buying if I'm trying to flip a house?
David: Yeah, and if- not everybody has a car, I get it, but if you do have a car, get the Deal Machine app, go out and drive or I mean there's really lots of other people- I use the Deal Machine app cuz it's awesome but there's a lot of other driving for dollars methods and if you can't afford it then just write them down, but getting out in your car, I mean come on, you can go out and you drive around for 2 or 3 hours for like $10 for the gas, lets be honest. So for $10 worth of gas, you can go drive for 2 or 3 hours and get yourself lost. Like when I'm out driving for dollars, my goal is to get lost and to end up on a street that I would have not normally driven and find that diamond in the rough. So my favorite way to learn my market is to just go drive and get lost or if I'm running an appointment, maybe I'mma leave the office 30 or 40 minutes early or stay out 30 or 45 minutes beyond and after I run or before that appointment, I'm gonna drive that neighborhood and I'm gonna go in every other street for you know, one mile radius and I'm going to turn my app on, I'm going to start clicking properties and you can really learn your market really well that way.
Brysan: Yeah and I'd be- I think like the best lists to pull- I mean if you want to get on a granular level, it's going to differ per market, you know I mean, not every list is going to perform the same in every market.
David: But let's talk about this just for a second. When you're pulling a list, what's the goal?
Brysan: It's to just get leads.
David: It's to get leads and it's to find leads that have a presumed motivation. That's it, it's that simple. So, you know every single persons-
Brysan: [inaudible], high equities foundation that makes- okay, if they're high equity, that's a qualifier.
David: Well, all that means to me is that they're not gonna typically have to bring money to sell it to get a discount.
Brysan: Yeah, exactly. They may qualify for a wholesale deal.
David: But people still bring money to closings all the time, but if you have a high equity let's say 30% minimum of equity, that means that they can basically sell it at a break-even to them and I still get a deal and they don't have to bring money to the table.
David: So let's talk about some of the niched lists for a second like you know, maybe divorce.
Brysan: Divorce, probate, yeah.
David: Code violations, probate. So again, these lists have a higher presumed level of motivation, higher but it doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be a deal.
David: Yeah, exactly I love it, great word. But, sometimes these lists are hard to come by, they're smaller niched lists.
David: So again, I'm not saying don't market to those lists, we have tremendous luck and success I should say not luck, success marketing to these niched lists but I find myself going back to these vacants and these high equity absentees over and over and over and over again because that's the low-hanging fruit.
Brysan: Yeah, it's low hanging fruit but I see both sides of it cuz it's like if I don't have money and maybe I have a little bit more time, like maybe it's worth my time going down to the courthouse and getting really niched.
Brysan: Getting things that I- it's less but I also have more- have less capacity than us. We don't- they don't have- some, and I'm not speaking for I don't know what their situation is but a lot of people don't have the capacity to dial that many people because of their time constraints, their job so it's like I'd much rather get off of work and go, you know tackle some people that show up on probate and code violations, you know, so obviously it's a little bit more of an upfront time commitment to find that type of data or pay for it, you know. If you're paying for it, you're paying more than most stores for that data anyways, so it's like- but you know, it may be worth the time just to go niched.
David: Go niched. Guys, we're gonna wrap this episode up and I want to thank you for listening and watching. This has been all about mistakes that we've made in our wholesaling endeavors and journey and career that we've partaken over the last, you know couple years to maybe going on about 6 years at this point. I'm looking at the list, I was taking notes here, you know while we were starting and all of this really comes to two things man. It's avoiding analysis paralysis and it's just being consistent.
David: Alright, so consistency is not something I can teach somebody, it's something they have to have in them but the analysis paralysis-
Brysan: Or develop.
David: Or develop, yeah.
Brysan: The good thing is it can be developed. I think that's the blessing of all this is that it can be developed.
David: But the analysis paralysis part of it, that's an internal fear guys.
David: So educate yourself on you know, ways to prevent having that fear. My best piece of advice would just be, be transparent. Tell the buyer that you are a cash buyer with the help of your partners.
Brysan: Yeah, seller.
David: Yeah, the seller I mean. And that you have to find a seller, but you do it all the time, that's not a big deal.
David: We found a seller for a hundred deals last year, I can do a hundred more.
David: No problem. I just- I need some time, I need my inspection period and for whatever reason if I'm unable to find a buyer then I'm going to let you know. And oftentimes when you send the contract to somebody and they sign it, even them knowing that, it's sold in their head. They signed it, it's sold so if you have to go back-
Brysan: Oh yeah, its sold.
David: Yeah, and you ask for a little bit more time or a little bit less money in terms of the offer, they typically aren't going to push back that much, they're gonna be like-
Brysan: Not that much.
David: Cuz they wanna sell it.
Brysan: Yeah, they don't want to start this whole process over again.
David: That's the goal guys.
Brysan: Go get a letter out of that they'd got in direct mail and call that guy and restart all this so-
David: That's right.
Brysan: But you- just to add one thing, the analysis paralysis, the not starting, that fear like I think a lot of it is like, it really is like a- for me, it was like a personal development thing. Like a lot of people come into this business in and jump off into entrepreneurship and it's like, yo like you need- a lot of us need growth in our mindset, you know what I mean? Really like looking at ourselves and like, you know, whether that's through books, audio, surrounding yourself with an accountability group, people that are maybe around your thing, taking round your status in the business that are taking action.
Brysan: Yeah, just being in the environment, saying wow this guy is actually like all he's doing is making offers and doing- you know what I mean? It does something to your psyche and may be able to at least help you push past those like initial fears to take action.
David: Main takeaway guys, don't be afraid to make mistakes. Mistakes are part of the success formula. What is the success formula? Fail plus fail plus fail plus fail plus fail equals succeed.
David: You got to try things, you got to be okay with little setbacks or little failures so don't be afraid to try things and you know, if it doesn't work out, you didn't necessarily fail. That's really the wrong word, it's just you've learned a way not to do something or maybe a way that's not the most efficient so you just got to get out there, you got to try. One of the- or Jamie also said, how do I become one of your students? Jamie, myself and Bryson are both real estate coaches, we specialize in wholesaling. I would send you to freewholesalecourse.com and literally I'm going to give you a free course to go take first and if you like the course or you want more information about it at the bottom of that course, there is a place where you can book a call with our team and we will happily sit down and figure out what your needs are and figure out, you know, if we're able to help you and we turn a lot of students away that either don't have the mindset or for whatever reason but again, we want you to go there and learn about this business, what it consists of and that's going to be the best place to start. freewholesalecourse.com, start there and Brysan, awesome episode.
Brysan: It was, I enjoyed it.
David: Guys, don't be afraid to make mistakes. Brysan and I, we still make mistakes.
Brysan: Every day.
David: Every day, but we're doing deals and we're making money and it's fun at this point.
Brysan: It is.
David: It's really always fun but it's more fun when you get checks to cash.
David: I got a check over here for like 5 grand I'm going to take to the bank.
David: I get it, it's fun but again, don't be afraid to make those mistakes guys. Thanks for listening, thanks for watching. Signing off.
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