In this episode of Gus - PowerISA Gus and David will talk about how Real state agents and Real state investors getting massive return investment from Facebook leads. To be successful in real estate, you must always and consistently put your clients' best interests first.
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David: All right guys, welcome back to the discount property investor podcast. I am your host Mr. David Dodge. Today, I have an awesome guest with an awesome topic, so I'm really happy to be bringing Mr. Gus Castro on the show. Gus is- he's a big deal, he really is guys. Gus is a big deal. I'm going to give a quick little intro before I introduce you guys to Gus, but Gus is a former Microsoft senior engineer who has turned into a real estate agent who has then turned into a sales guru, right? So Gus actually runs one of the largest inside sales teams for real estate investors and agents in North America. He currently has 65 agents strong working 50,000 outbound dials a day. Holy cow that makes my head hurt. I'm gonna repeat that, he's got a team of people making 50,000 calls a day guys. Wow! He and his team, are setting a hundred appointments with buyers and sellers every single day. I thought I was doing good at like 3 or 4 sometimes but damn you're doing a hundred every day. Holy cow, this is awesome. Gus runs a 7-figure business and he has over 600 active clients and Gus has got a really unique thing. I mean basically what I've- and of course, he's going to teach us all about this today, but from what I have learned thus far, real estate agents and real estate investors, can get a massive ROI from Facebook leads and you know, I'm actually not doing Facebook leads so I was telling Gus before we started this show here that you know, I'm going to probably learn a lot from this and I'm excited to have him on because you know, we tested Facebook a while back and we didn't have a whole lot of success but it's most likely user error, it usually is right? And- but Gus' team work primarily with Facebook leads and you set these leads up and he's got other vendors that can help you with that process but essentially once those leads come in, his team takes over and they're calling and qualifying and setting appointments and doing all of the stuff that typically most investors get bogged down with, right? Like basically, the first thing that you want to outsource in my opinion is what Gus is doing. So Gus thank you for coming on, I'm grateful for your time. I'm confident that I'm going to learn a lot and that everybody listening and viewing is going to learn a ton. Welcome to the show, my friend.
Gus: Hey thanks so much, David. I love that intro, I appreciate that. Yeah, and I'm here to you know, add as much value as I can to your audience, folks that are in the investment game, the wholesaling game. I definitely think you should take a look at Facebook and there's a lot of you know, there are some challenges to working with it for sure. It's not super easy-to-use sometimes, there's a lot of restrictions on it for real estate and for investing specifically, so as long as you kinda understand that part, you kinda work around it. I think it'd be a great lead source folks.
David: Awesome, awesome. So Gus, let's jump right in. I mean really like- before we- before we get into like you know, the fine print here, not the fine print but the details of it, let's take a step back, right? And let's talk a little bit about how you went from Microsoft to real estate investing to doing what you do now if you don't mind.
Gus: Yeah yeah, definitely. So you know, I got recruited out of college. I actually went to school in Mexico and you know, I got recruited out of college to work for Microsoft a long time ago. So Microsoft was the only game in town back then, the early 2000s. It was the be-all-end-all of technology, people remember that and you know, I went to work there and I stayed there for a decade. I worked for Microsoft-
Gus: -full time from 20- 2004 to 2013 plus a couple of internships when I was a student, right?
David: That's great.
Gus: So I loved the company, it's a great company but you know, I always had the bug right ads. I knew that I had you know, other skills, stuff that you know, the corporate world didn't super value, right? You know, I could talk to people, I was good with people, I was good with you know, connecting folks. They always called me the networking engineer like I was a little bit too salty, right? And other engineers, I don't know if you've worked with them or not before David, but they get a little bit hesitant when people are a little bit too good at sales around them. You know engineers are very straight to the point, focus, analytical. Sales skills sometimes can get in the way, right? My wife is the one actually that kind of pulled me into the business, she got licensed in 2008.
Gus: Like right as the world was ending.
David: Great time to get licensed through, really true though because you know the-
Gus: Honestly, yeah.
David: -the banks weren't lending anymore but the motivated sellers are still there, right?
Gus: A hundred percent. I had no idea about investing, you know I didn't- I wasn't- I'm not from the U.S, this whole thing was new to me but during that time, you know, watching my wife, the work that she did, she would work with a lot of investors, right? And I would find people you know like this is in Seattle area, people would pick up 5 properties, 8 properties, 10 properties through straight-up purchase, short sales, foreclosure, pre-foreclosure, all this stuff going on in 08', 09', 2010, 2011, the very early stage of the crash. It was a bonanza, it was crazy and I saw hey when these things happened, there are some people that are looking for those deals, there are people that are looking to- especially like in short sale situations, the homeowner is trying to look for someone to pick up that property right? So you know, there are people that were looking for that, the agent would help connect them, all these things, right? So I discovered investing, I discovered the world of real estate and I went- I got licensed in 2010 to help out my wife. In 2013, I went full time to work on the residential side, on the retail side cuz that was picking up a ton, my wife was getting super busy with that and I never looked back, man. That was 2013, I left corporate life, jumped into entrepreneurship, started this company PowerISA, an inside sales company in 2015.
David: I didn't even introduce your company, I apologize.
Gus: No worries, no worries. That's what I was jumping into.
David: Gus Castro from PowerISA. Come on Dave, you can do better than that.
Gus: PowerISA, you got it, you got it.
David: You can do better than that Dave. Go on, go on, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Gus: Yeah, yeah, no worries. And you know so I do that in 2015 and I moved back to- actually I go back and forth between the US and Mexico now. My team is based out of Mexico, you know, folks that you know, native English speakers, folks in the US living in Mexico, and they- and they're my team. They're my virtual team, we're a virtual call center now.
David: I like that, I love that you lead with that and you don't- you know like transparency is everything to me. I just did an hour and 20 minute conference with two sellers that came in and they had every question in the book and you know it's annoying sometimes when you do this all day every day like we do right?
David: But I enjoyed making sure that they leave feeling comfortable, but I got 2 contracts signed 5 minutes ago so boom.
Gus: That's a good day man, that's a good day, it's not bad.
David: Hey that's a good Friday right there, right? 2 contracts, I didn't even have to pick up the phone too, they came to me so very very cool. Awesome, awesome.
Gus: Yeah, hundred percent, hundred percent.
David: Go ahead.
Gus: So you know, I built this company, built this team initially focused on retail, retail real estate, residential, real estate agent's and officers, but I got approached by you know, actually wholesalers were the first people that approached me, said hey Gus, you know I hear you do calling or my agent, one of my agents that I work with hired you guys to do prospecting or to do appointment setting, to do conversion and hey I have you know a hundred leads, a thousand leads, five thousand leads and they're getting more and they wanted some help with that, right? They wanted to add cold calling into their arsenal and they wanted to stop cold calling. They wanted to leverage that out or they were doing online leads either Google pay-per-click or Facebook or whatever or you know, ringless voicemails, texting, and they wanted someone to help out with the calling, right? So that's where we come in. So anytime in real estate someone needs to do phone calls, either they're cold calls or their inbound lead conversions, that's kind of where we come in.
David: Man, 600 plus active clients, 65 callers, I got to ask man, this isn't even like- this isn't even like part of what I typically ask. How do you manage all that? Wow.
Gus: So actually that's a really good question, you know? Cuz when I was real estate, I only had my team. I struggle to manage like 3, 4 people, that was it. That was all I could manage and I was at Microsoft.
David: Man, I got 10 or 12 in my team and I can't keep my head above water half the time. Right, right.
Gus: Yeah, it's crazy and you know, when I was at Microsoft, I managed 5 people, oh between 5 and 7 people any given time. I was a full time manager, that's all I did. I just manage my people into projects, that's what mostly what I did all day. Well I've got 65 people but I guess the trick there or you know, is I still only manage 5 people and those are the people I actually talk to everyday, the ones that I hold accountable and the ones that I lead, right? They in turn-
David: That's the trick. You got managers that manage other managers and manage that.
Gus: Managers that manage managers, yeah. I got middle managers and I've got- so I got one of my teams, my colleague team has two levels of managers so you know right? Direct supervisors-
David: You gotta. When you have that many people man, you have to.
Gus: You got to. No one can really handle more than, on the calling side, maybe 10 to 15 people. Any more than that, they don't even know who their- what their names is. They don't even know what call they're making, they have no idea, right?
David: They don't even- yeah, exactly.
Gus: But even as you go higher, maybe 5 people is it man. That's it, 5 people. That's probably the max you should do. So if you look at it that way, I still have a team of 5 people and that still takes up most of my time, managing them and they figuring it out, but yo know, I'm just training them, what do they do when they talk to their employees, right? To their team members and what- and so on so forth. I mean it sounds simple, it is- actually it is simple, it's not easy to do right? And you have to just get, you know, it's a skill, right David? Like you know, you're good at talking to sellers, you weren't great at that a couple years ago and you're much better now. I suck at hiring and firing people a few years ago, with practice and to get to 65 David, I've gone through hundreds of people, hundreds.
David: Oh probably close to a thousand I would think, yeah. Hundreds, hundreds, hundreds.
Gus: A lot of folks, a lot of folks and you know, hiring, holding accountable and firing if they don't do it, keeping them if they do, is a skill you get better and better and better at.
David: Oh yeah.
Gus: The thing is I hire 5, 10 people a week, right? Some people hire 5, 10 people in their whole careers so like you know, I'm gonna get way better at it faster than most people.
David: I love it, I love it. Well Gus, let's jump in. Thanks for answering that question too because you know, usually it's the simple answer to a dumb question, right? And that was kind of a dumb question but I was just curious.
Gus: I'm not smarter than most people, I just get better practice and I just, you know, adapt a little bit faster, that's it man.
David: I love it, I love it. So Gus, everyone that's listening including me, we want to jump in the meat potatoes man. We want to know what's going on. So how- real estate agents or investors, how can they get a massive return on investment from Facebook leads? Again, I was just telling you before we started that I've tried it in the past and I didn't really have a whole lot of success but I'm about 90% sure that it wasn't Facebook, it was David that wasn't having that success, right? So how can agents and investors get a massive ROI from Facebook? Let's start there.
Gus: Yeah, absolutely. So one thing I want to do first is I want to say you know, Facebook is great. Facebook's not the be-all end-all, right? Like any investor, probably a lot of people have the base of their business in let's say direct mail, right? Like driving for dollars, you know, so I mean every investor that I worked with, Facebook is one tool in their toolbox. It's not the only thing that they do, I don't want to represent it that way.
David: Sure, sure.
Gus: Typically the investors and wholesalers I work with, they've got a base in direct mail, maybe ringless voicemails, text messaging and they have Google pay-per-click and they have Facebook as a part of that cuz Google is getting expensive, right? It's pricy, getting those leads through pay-per-click is-
David: Man, Google is expensive.
Gus: Yeah I mean what do you typically-
David: I did Google AdWords for a long time.
Gus: And they just- you were priced out of it, right? I mean that's what's happening the last few years.
David: I got priced out, I mean here's the thing: I'm pretty lazy so I like to choose marketing methods that can allow me to be lazy, so like radio advertisements are one of my faves because I don't have to do anything, I just make sure that the bill's paid. AdWords was similar to that but man the cost per lead has gone through the roof so I don't do AdWords right now, but I think that's also due to the- it's supply and demand, right? How many- how many people want the- want to run those ads? That's the demand and as the demand goes up, the supply or the cost of the lead is going to go up with it, right? So I totally agree with what you're saying, absolutely.
Gus: A hundred percent. As a practitioner, you know what I'm talking about and all of these methods, I mean they all work, right? They all work. I'm not- I don't think none of them you're gonna get zero deals out of but it goes back to what you just said. What's the time investment you need to manage it? What's the cost? Cost per deal, cost per acquisition. Cost per acquisition is kind of the name of the game, what is it at the end of the day? And let's say you can get a decent cost-per-acquisition but you got to be in the AdWords manager everyday trying to put out the fires. Hey this keyword went up to- you know I think- you know, when I was doing pay-per-click, it went from 2 bucks a click to like 15, 18 dollars a click.
David: Or 40 and 50 in some markets, yeah.
Gus: Oh for yeah, for motivated sellers I'm sure it's through the roof, right? Cuz a lot of investors built their business on Google AdWords and now, you know, more people want to jump into the game, right? So same deal. It's always something new David, it's always something new.
David: It is, it's a cat and mouse game man, that's life in general.
Gus: Yeah, you got to go to the next one. You got to go over the next, a hundred percent and you know, another one like YouTube's another lead source and I know people have overlooked a lot but I'm like, you know, I say let me go to Facebook first and I'll tell you why YouTube isn't interesting compared to Facebook. So Facebook, lots of attention, tons of people on the plat- billions of people on the platform.
David: I mean who's not on it? I mean let's just- let's not even talk about who's on it, it's who's not on it? I know like one or two people in my entire circle that aren't on Facebook, come on everyone's on it.
Gus: Yeah and maybe they won't admit it, they actually have an account.
David: They probably have an account that they don't tell you about. Everybody's on it, everybod's on it.
Gus: Exactly, exactly. There's a reason, you know, people pay so much atten- there's a lot of scrutiny on it too, right? Because everyone uses it. So what happens to face- Facebook comes out with an ad product I bought, what was it? 5, 6 years ago. I tried it when it first came out, I thought it was garbage. I'm like man, these people are not motivated, these people are just- most of them like bogus numbers, the date is bad and there's zero motivation, I'm out of here. This was back in you know, 2012, 2013, early days of Facebook advertising. Well, there are a couple of things that changed, right? That algorithm that figures out who's who gets better every day. Actually, it's a little bit better every day which is why it's-
David: Every second. It's crazy right.
Gus: Every second yeah. It does, it does. So a year ago, about 18 months ago, that algorithm got so good that actually the government stepped in and said Woah guys like hey, this- a lot of the stuff you can do with Facebook is so powerful, you can actually discriminate people now, right? You can actually exclude people that you shouldn't exclude, not in the US at least, right?
Gus: Like hey, they brought down the hammer on Facebook and they created this thing called the specialized category. I won't go to a ton of detail, but it made the super hyper-targeting you could do on Facebook, it reduced it for real estate and employment and like, you know, credit stuff, whatever.
David: Yeah, lots of [inaudible].
Gus: So it made it harder to hyper-target people. Well, a funny thing happened though. Everyone was predicting it's the end of real estate on Facebook, it's gone. Well, there are more people advertising now than they were a year or 18 months ago on Facebook. What does that mean? There are ways you can still get great ROI but you can't do the super hyper-targeting you used to be able to do, but now there's a ton of emphasis on what you put in the ad, the copy, the keywords, the way you phrase things. Cuz number one, you got to get it past compliance. You cannot put you know, you can't- you cannot write an ad David saying that hey David, I know that you're having problems you know, keeping your property. Let me get that, take it off your hands for some cash. Facebook won't allow that. You've got to phrase in a way that doesn't make people feel like hey this guy- how does this guy know that I don't have any money? Holy cow. It won't allow that.
David: Gus, let me tell you something mna. Let me tell you something.
Gus: Go, go, go.
David: And this is in agreeance with what you just said. I was trying to get some ads running on Facebook probably 5 or 6 months ago and I spent a week with zero success cuz it was the words I was using and the way I was writing them.
Gus: And the compliance, you never got past compliance.
David: I never even got past com- I didn't even get the opportunity. Now this wasn't trying to find motivated sellers this was trying to just teach people how to wholesale and be real estate investors, but I didn't know that so I literally had, I was basically forced and I'm really happy with the decision that I made to go with this local company that I'm using now, right? But I couldn't do it, I couldn't figure it out, you know? Like copy is everything and it's you know, I was trying to do a lot of extra stuff that didn't need to be done and that's kind of what the company that I hired says man, you just need to just- less is more, less is more, let's get them oout.
Gus: Yeah, kinda scale it back a little bit, don't too much and I think that could- also goes back to what Facebook is. Remember, people don't go on Facebook. It's different than Google. Google is how do I sell my home fast, cash fast?
David: Yeah, what, how, where or when.
Gus: Or you know, property houses. Yeah, Google is very specific about that. Facebook is nothing like that, right? I'm not on Facebook seeing who can buy my house, right? or I can unload this property I got you know, from my own calling, whatever, right?
David: Yeah Facebook is more of a place for somebody to go get entertainment than it is for them to search something. It really you know, it really is.
Gus: A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent and now people- I mean people have television shows on YouTube, people have- like a lot of these, you know, I do a lot of interviews and podcasts, some of these podcasts only publish to Facebook now, right?
David: To Facebook now, I know.
Gus: That's all they do.
David: Isn't that crazy?
Gus: Yeah, Facebook live and so Facebook is- yeah, it's insane and it's a huge platform for all kinds of stuff, right? So people are there for anything but business usually. They're just there to entertain, see what other people, their friends are up to so you got to get their attention, that's it. And you can write 18 paragraphs in your ad, they're only ever going to read the first line and their only ever going to see that one image you put up there. So that's what you have to focus on number one, right? But and here's kinda- people can miss this, even though the consumer can't see the 18 paragraphs you just wrote, the algorithm can see that. The algorithm can actually read that, it can actually say so the people that I see have success on Facebook, on the creative side. Again, I don't want to come off as as an ads expert, I'm not an ads expert. I just see a lot of ads, I see a lot of people doing this, right?
David: No, no, of course. Let us know what you know. Hell yeah.
Gus: A hundred percent. So what they do is they give the algorithm as much information as they can. Hey, are you going through any kind of life event you know, hey medical bills. Did you get, you know, did you just go over- lose your job? Did you have to relocate ASAP? you know and can we help you out with that? We have a special offer we're able to give you, we can you give you options, right? And you have to be able to play around with those words because it's very very sensitive, you know, the cash now and you know, you're- you know, you don't have a job, you know the way you phrase it matters a lot and I know it's kind of crazy. Some people do end up hiring marketing agencies, maybe hire some pro's. I think people should do what you did David. You got to try that yourself, fight out with it a few days, fight within a few weeks, see what you can get out there but the key thing is try to phrase it differently, do not phrase it like you know that person has an issue, it will never get approved.
David: Yeah, don't start off with: are you broke? Cuz you're- right there your ad's gonna get denied.
Gus: Yeah exactly. Need cash now? No, no.
David: And the reason- there's a good reason behind it which I didn't really realize in the beginning. I'm thinking well Facebook is going to take my money right? Like they're going to let me say whatever I want. Wrong. They want to keep people on the platforms so they don't want people to think that they're getting targeted because they know that they need to sell their property or that- for this or for that so you gotta-
Gus: You're a distresses seller, you know, you're in emotional financial distress.
David: You gotta be- you gotta back it out a little bit and be a little bit more broad or just maybe be solution-oriented not problem-oriented.
Gus: Hundred percent.
David: Yeah, definitely.
Gus: Hundred percent, anything that indicates that you might know what they're going through is going to get flagged, they don't want that. It's creepy, too creepy.
David: It's gonna get flagged, it's not even gonna get past those- the compliance part, right.
Gus: The compliance. A hundred percent. So less is more in that aspect but give them options, right. Options, we can close in a home in 7 days, we can do this, we'll take a property as-is condition, so make it more solution- I like the way you phrased that, more solution based than about them, right? So you know, that kind of edge you can be useful and as long as you can get it past compliance, you can play around with that text, right? So get it past, you know, the moni- the screeners and monitors. Yes, it might take 24 hours to get approved. It might take more than that to get approved. If it takes more than 24 hours for me, I submit a new one. I'm like Dave, that one's never coming back, who knows when the- that one went into the funnel somewhere, let me make a separate one and see if that one gets through so you gotta play around with it, right.
David: Yeah, I like your- I like that mindset. That makes perfect sense.
Gus: 100%, so- and once you get that creative out there, right? And it gets approved, yes it will generate attention, go generate clicks, people can send you that information. So when someone clicks on your ad and sends you their information, that's where we come in, right? You know, PowerISA as a company or you know, whoever you've got, maybe you're taking those calls if you're a solo investor, you're going to- your cellphone's going to ring, you want to get back to those folks, that's important. Another thing that I've seen that helps people especially with the distressed sellers is not to send people directly to your phone or as a text, but to actually send people over to a landing page. You want to push them to fill out a questionnaire cuz you don't want anyone that just wants cash fast cuz they might not qualify. They might not be a homeowner, their home might not be in the right condition. You actually want them to answer a few more questions cuz I don't know if you clicked on a Facebook ad recently David, but it is- they call it- the feature called instant response, right?
David: Yeah, I like that.
Gus: And you can just click on the ad and it sends your information, boom.
David: And Facebook basically has the web forum built into it and it uses your data even, so yeah there's a couple different cool options but that- but versus you taking that traffic off of Facebook onto your landing page which again you guys just heard me say user error, right? There's a lot of ways to screw it up so just eliminate it. Like you said it Gus, I literally- I don't have any tattoos on my body, but I was thinking the other day. I was literally like man if I was to get a tattoo, it would say less is more. That's it, it would be three words: less is more and I'm kinda debating on it just somewhere you know, something small but just so it keeps reminding me over and over and over. Guys, less is more. Why do investors struggle? Because they're usually over-analyzing something, right? So just simplify, like investing in real estate starts with getting a deal on a piece of property, right? You guys have heard me say this before: you make your money when you buy, you get paid when you sell but you got to get a deal. Next you get that deal under contract and you shop it to your investor partner's then you find a buyer, you double close or you assign and you get paid. That's it, like it's incredibly simple but the human mind wants to make it so damn complicated that you get analysis paralysis and you don't ever even start marketing to motivated sellers which is where it all begins. So Gus, I can't agree more. I love it, I love it.
Gus: Yeah, a hundred percent David and then you know, it goes to the heart of you know, what a wholesaler, what an investor can do. Some of the more successful ones that I've met, they didn't start with direct mail, they started by just talking to people in the neighborhood, right? They knew their neighborhood, their target neighborhood, in some instances they live there in their target neighborhood and they would just get up and walk around and talk to people, right? I mean it all works, all that stuff works, right? But simple- simple is good sometimes, right? Simplify, simplify. Everything- I have a big company now, everything tends towards complexity man. It takes leadership and it takes like taking down, taking a step back and go woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, what is the easiest, simplest way to do this because at the-
David: Nowadays, the leaders main role though is to like make sure that it's simple because if it's too complex, people quit, they leave, they don't know what they're doing, they then get analysis paralysis.
Gus: Focus, focus.
David: It's focus man, and that's really what less is more means in my opinion, you know? It's like I'm not saying like make less money, that's not more, let's be realistic but focus, you know less- It's really like this: less distractions allows for more focus. That's the long sentence, the short is less is more but really what I mean is less distractions equals more focus and more focus is power. That's where- that's how you move the needle folks, period. You want to move the needle? It's not by working harder or being busy all day. We all know that busy isn't productive, productive is productive. So you want to move the needle? Less distractions, more focus. You're going to- you're going to win every time.
Gus: Yeah, a hundred percent, hundred percent. And you know, as an investor, it's about deal flow. What are the activities, things you can do to generate those leads, to generate that deal flow at 100% and like you said you know, as an investor, as you advance in that career, you start leveraging out some of these activities and if you're using Facebook or Google or YouTube or all these different online- actually, I'm gonna take a step back. Once the lead comes in, it doesn't really matter where it comes from, right? Yes there's context there for sure but at the end of the game, it's a conversion game at that point. You've solves the lead generation problem. Okay great, you're generating leads. You're sending them to a landing page, they're going to get further qualified. The cost per lead's going to bump up, that's understood but that person sending it, filling out that form. What condition is our home in? What kinda situation are they going through? What's your credit score range? This and that.
David: Yeah, the more things you ask, the better for qualification but the more possibility and/or opportunity of them being like ah screw this, I'm leaving, right? Absolutely, absolutely.
Gus: Hundred percent, hundred percent. And I- but I tell everyone, you know, in the marketing parlor that's called long form, it's a long form lead versus short form which is like click the button, instantly send it over, right? That's the lowest cost per lead because more people can click on that and send you their information. There's a trade-off though, right? And here's the crazy thing, I mean again, as investors, people figure this out. If you're doing any kind of advertising, the more friction you add, you're going to get more qualification. Even if that lead is higher-cost, what really matters at the end of the day is your cost per acquisition. How does it affect your cost per acquisition? What we've seen- again, by managing hundred of campaigns, you know, helping people convert these deals is that a higher cost per lead has sometimes very little to do with cost-per-acquisition, in fact it'd be the opposite. Higher cost per lead can actually decrease your cost per acquisition, cuz you're having less appointments but more people attend those appointments and you're closing more deals out of those appointments which is what matters at the end. So to people listening to this, the take away is try out those long form, try out that friction cuz it can actually reduce your cost per acquisition. That's what we try to help our clients to do, right? So once the lead comes in, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter where it came from, it goes into the funnel and it's a conversion game at that point, right? So that's how we help people out, we start that conversion game. Instant response, we're on the phone trying to connect with folks whether it's text message, phone call and get the dialogue started, get the conversation started cuz you gotta additional qualification.
David: So you guys aren't- Love it. So you guys aren't an agency that's helping people set up these ads. I'm sure you have people that you can point to.
Gus: Correct, correct. Yeah, hundred percent.
David: But I want to make that very clear guys. I know that but I just want to make sure that all the listeners and the viewers are aware of that. Gus isn't the guy that you hire to get your ads up. You have to do that on your own or hire somebody, you know, to help you with that but that's actually good. I like that he doesn't do that because just like my- just like my eviction attorney, he is terrible at debt collecting, let him stick to the evictions and I get a debt collector to do my debt collections. You don't want somebody that's doing five things cuz they're going to suck at those. It's the truth.
David: So Gus, the fact- well most of the time, I'm telling you. I know because I've failed a lot and it's mostly because of decisions I made that I thought were better because somebody was doing more. Did I not just say less is more guys? You heard me say that a minute ago.
Gus: A hundred percent, hundred percent.
David: So Gus, I love that you don't do that. There's a million people out there that can help you do that and because you don't do that, you're not spread really thin. Instead, and correct me if I'm wrong cuz I don't know exactly but I'm thinking, instead when those leads come in, your team is the one that's working them, setting those appointments, answering live calls and/or calling the leads that come in back and then qualifying them, so on so forth. Am I right?
Gus: Yeah, a hundred percent and you know, and our company exists because that job is a grind. I mean, you know, [inaudible] that first call.
David: That job is a grind.
Gus: Yeah, that second call but making the 5th call, 10th call, 12th call, you know, we have some campaigns that'll- our 12 month follow up campaigns, right? Call, call, call for the next year. So that's where we help people out, right? And when we get in contact with a person, it's qualifying them, it's converting them and setting up either an acquisitions manager if that part of the team or the investor, right? Maybe the investor's hiring us and boom, send that person over to them so that's the part of it that we do. So in that aspect of it which is what we do the most day in and day out, there's some things that everyone should do, right? There's some things we've learned on how to do. Number one, is speed to lead, it matters right? A hundred percent, right? And if you're an inv- if you're a solo investor, oh Gus I can't make that call that fast, I'm busy, I'm on appointments, I've got another job. There's no excuse, there's automation that can help you do some of these stuff, right? At least text people out, at least email them, just something like do something that shows them yeah you're there, give me your information, hey fill out this form, please help me out with that. Whatever it is, get the ball rolling right away, immediately. The consumer expects an instant response nowadays. Even on Facebook, they want to know what's going on right off the bat. Number two, you got to have some kind of some follow up plan in place, right? You cannot just call them once, call them twice, called them three times. We know and just by hat- by all the amount of campaigns and leads that we handle that 60 days, 14 touches is going to get you to talk to the majority of those leads, 50% + 1. 60 days, 14 attempts, right? So whenever I hear people saying that oh Facebook doesn't work, it's no good, I'm like how many times did you try to reach these guys? Oh I called them like twice. Not good enough. Oh, I called them 5 times. Better, still not good enough. If you're in that range-
David: Still not good enough.
Gus: Yeah, not good enough. If you're doing 60 days, 14 touches, okay now that's a very good amount of touches. Okay there, now we can talk about response and lead qual- you know, the other things. Otherwise, you're just not playing the right game. They want to play a game where the first person they call, it turns into an appointment, like that- you're playing the wrong game. This is not the rules that Facebook plays by, right? These leads are top of the funnel, they're very top of the funnel. You got them another contacts, you got to work them and yes you have to work Facebook leads harder than other leads. That's a hundred percent true.
David: Guys check this out. I'm gonna just- I'm gonna veer of for 90 seconds and then we're gonna come right back here. Sales statistics, right? 48% of sales people never follow up with a prospect, that's half. 25% of sales people are going to make the second contact and stop, that's a fourth. 12% are going to go to three contacts and stop, and basically 10% or less are going to do more than three. Gus just said his people are doing 14, 12, 14, whatever that number was over a 60 day period. Do you guys think that Gus's team are going to be getting deals? Hell yeah they are. Wow. So let's reverse this out. We just talked about the number of people that are actually doing the follow-ups in terms of the percentages. Now let's talk about the number of people that get to like, let's say the 4th or the 5th actual contact and how they're able to make a sale, right? So 2% of sales guys, they're going to be made on the first contact, 2%. So if you're spending ads on- if you're spending money on anything, it doesn't matter if it's the Facebook ads or AdWords or direct mail or cold callers or radio ads or whatever, doesn't matter, does not matter. 2% of sales people are going to make a sale on the first contact and really it's- could be less than that. 3% on the 2nd contact, 5% on the 3rd contact, 10% on the 4th contact, 80% of sales are going to be made between the 5th and the 15th contact, 80%. So Gus, I told you before this that I didn't know much about this and that I was going to be really interested to interview you not only because I want my audience, my listeners, my viewers to learn something new but I'm learning something new right now because I'm super excited to hear more about what you guys are offering because I'm not doing 5 to 15 contacts on every lead. I try to but there's only so much time in the day and you know, this comes up and that comes up and wow. So, I'm done with my little tangent there but it's so powerful.
Gus: A hundred percent, and I love that number Dave cuz that's exactly what I'm seeing, right? The 5th to 15th, I mean I just threw out 14, right?
David: Yeah, you just jump all the way in, boom.
Gus: If you're not doing 14, you're in the wrong game, right? You're not to looking at it the right way and if you approach it with that kind of mindset, then it's not a grind to do the first, second and third call. This is a 14 touch game. If you want to play the game, that's how it's played, right? You know don't hate the player, hate the game. That's the way Facebook works and if you approach it with that mindset, you're not going to feel frustrated after the 5th call. NO bro, this is a 14 call game. Go for it, set yourself up to be successful in that kind of game so that's important to do. So, like I said number one, you have to have some way to have speed to lead, number one. Number two, you've got to be ready with that 14 touch follow up plan, at least that right? Go into it with that expectation and you will get results from it if you go into it with that expectation. The third thing and this is super important, as important as the other two cuz I see a lot of investors, agents fail at this. They're doing all this work to get in touch with the person, you're going to talk with them, you've got to be ready with what you're going to stay, right? You've got to be prepared for that conversation. You got to be ready to go. You got to have your objections, your handlers ready to go. You gotta have the answers to these common questions. You got to be able to close for the appointment, right? And again remember, even if this is a motivated seller, even if it's they meet all of your criteria, you still have to convince them to meet with you. You gotta give them a reason to meet with you, right? And it might not just be that you can give him cash fast, that might not be it cuz you might be in competition with other investors, in competition with Zillow, in competition with these other I-buyers. What sets you apart? If you cannot tell me in a concise conversation David why I should go with you instead of going with Zillow, I'm going to go with Zillow, right?
Gus: All things being equal, the brand is going to win, if all things equal.
David: Not everybody in St. Louis has heard of Household Easy or whatever the company is, everyone's heard of Zillow. Right. So you got to have some sort of strategic-
Gus: Hundred percent.
David: Absolutely man. I love it, I love it. So well let's- let me ask you this real quick.
Gus: Go, go, go.
David: The top Facebook campaigns to run right now, you know like let's say the results that you've seen from like the last 30 days. What do those consists of? Is it the long- is it the long form ones? Is that what you're seeing that work the best?
Gus: So long forms- yeah, long forms- I'll give an example. So regular, you know, Facebook ads that have like a lead form, the instant response thing, instant fill out, very quick, very low cost. We can get leads- on the retail side, you can get leads for $0.50 a pop with that system. Those convert about 10% of those are going to want to talk to you like an appointment or a live transfer like an immediate- something immediate, 10%.
David: That's pretty good. Man, you're talking 5 to 10 bucks for somebody that wants to talk, like I'd take that all day.
Gus: Not bad, not bad. On the retail side, not bad. On the- always on the investor side it's gonna be pricier but just to get- to compare apples to apples. So if you put long-form on the retail side, long-form, the cost per lead's going to go up. It can double, it can triple, I've seen it go up 10 times right? From 50 cents to 5 bucks to 10 bucks to 15 dollars a lead but the conversion to people wanting to talk to you, 30% of people want to talk to you, 40% of people wanting to talk to you, right?
Gus: So the cost per acquisition like I said before, that starts to look better with some of these a long form leads. So long form is killing everything else at the moment, and again in six months, it will be something different. It'll be YouTube ads, it'll be videos or something but right now, I'm talking about the fall of 2020, long-form is kicking everybody's butt right now.
David: Holy cow. Hey, what would be like a couple steps, like I don't know maybe give me three steps to help convert more online leads cuz again, I didn't really have much luck with it at all. What would you recommend would be a couple steps to help people cuz I'm sure there's a lot of listeners and viewers that are already doing some sort of online lead.
I don't know if it would be AdWords or Facebook or YouTube or whatever but what would you say would be some of you know, some tips and tricks to convert more of these online leads?
Gus: Awesome. So you're gonna love this and people might be familiar with this or not. There's a tool out there called Zapier.com.
David: Oh, I love Zapier. Zay-pier, Zah-pier, yeah same thing. I love Zapier.
Gus: That one, the Zaps, right?
Gus: So when I mentioned that speed to lead problem, right? there's a problem about speed to lead that people can really struggle with. Zapier, that's a solution to that, right? Number one, if you want to have speed to lead and you're not able to be on the phone and you don't have staff, you don't have an ISA yet, you don't have anything like that, Zapier's your best friend. Check it out, it can help you set up some of those instant response so that's number one. Number two, on the follow up side, man the follow up side is always a grind. There's no easy way to do follow up. I'd love to have a magical follow up system that people can just follow but number one, get a CRM, right? As an investor, you are a professional, right? You're a professional salesperson. You might not know it as an investor but you are a professional salesperson, you gotta have a CRM and you might have to go with Podio, get a- get Zoho. Zoho's 10 bucks a month or 5 bucks a month, whatever and then very decent CRM cuz that will help you keep track of those follow-ups. You have to know which calls you have to make that day. Do not rely on Excel or some kind of spreadsheet or some kind of post it system. Don't do that, get a CRM.
David: Or your brain, do not rely on your brain.
Gus: Or your brain. No, forget about that. Forget about that, it's never gonna work.
David: No. So, I've been using Podio for 5 or 6 years and I actually just moved over to realestateinvestors.com's REI touch and they have a lot of the built-ins zaps from Zapier built in whereas Podio, you have to use GlobiFlow and Zapier and RightSignature and this and that. It's great by all means but it's like man like when I take on a new student Gus, it's like trying to teach them how to do this is going to be- it's going to take longer than it's going to teach them how to buy real estate, right? So I moved over to a system that has all these things built-in but yes, agree one hundred percent, gotta have a CRM.
Gus: Love it, love it. Get a CRM. Do yourself a favor, listen to David, you know, get a CRM for that follow up aspect of it. And number three, like the 3rd nugget I'm going to give you guys is when you're talking to the person, right? You know, and this is what keeps my team, right? Especially in the motivated sellers scenario. It's about having empathy, right? Having empathy and curiosity. Empathy and curiosity, put those two together and you can have a great conversation even when someone's going through a tough time, right? And again, you never know what it is so shut up and ask the question and just shut up and listen to what they have to say, right? Empathy and curiosity. Hey, I saw you click through our ad you know, that we have on Facebook about you know buying properties within 7 days, tell me more about your situation and then just shut up and see what they're willing to volunteer to you, right? And wherever the conversation goes, relocation, probate, death in the family, medical bills, job loss, whatever it is, be a human being, have a human conversation and show some curiosity about it, right? What are they going through? What does that mean for them? Right? Where in the situation does that put them in? Like man, that's a really though situation. Go down the rabbit hole with them, it's worth it for you, right? And at the back end, you still have to have those qualifying questions, no doubt. I mean you have to ask. What condition's the property in? Get the equity, all these things. You have to qualify them, don't get me wrong but connecting with them- my ISA's, their number one job David to get those hundred appointment today, they have to build rapport. That is the name of the game. They have to be a human being to connect with them.
David: See Gus I- man I don't think I've agreed with anybody as much as I have with you honestly. We resonate- we're on the same wavelength for real. I tell people all the time I don't think I'm a good salesperson because I hate salespeople. I hate- I hate being sold but what I'm good at is just making friends. I'm a good listener with- when I'm the front of a seller. I like- I am curious and it's funny that you say like, I have empathy and curiosity. I don't- I never even realized that that's what- why I'm good at my business and my job, not because I'm a good sales guy, right? And I had another quick tangent, right? I had one of my students contact me yesterday and he was saying Dave I bought one of these you know, big nationwide sales guys. I'm not going to say his name because I do respect the guy but he's like I bought one of these, you know, one of the big nationwide real estate sales guys courses and he's saying, you know, you need to ask the seller like 5 or 6 or 7 times the number before you make an offer and I'm like no, never. I would never do that, you know, like ask him once or twice and then if they don't give you a number, you give him a number. Why? Cuz then you can anchor low. Otherwise they're anchoring high, like I totally disagree with that advice. So yeah, you don't have to be good at sales to be a good salesperson. Gus I love it, I agree 100%. You have to make a friend and have empathy and curiosity and that's going to lead to somebody wanting to work with you. I mean basically whenever I'm out on an appointment with somebody, by the end of the appointment, they're selling me on why I should buy the house, not on why they should work with my company. I mean, does that make me a good salesperson? I think so, but I don't have any tips or tricks. Like people are always saying Dave you're so good at this, I'm just a good listener.
Gus: What's the line? What's the line? What's the one thing that's gonna make them like-
David: I don't have anything up my sleeve guys, like there's no tip or trick that- it's just be a human and ask questions that humans want to listen to or hear or whatever, like just be you. It's that simple so Gus I love it.
Gus: A hundred percent.
David: Absolutely love it. I want to recap real quick. Three steps, so Zapier is one of your tools or tricks, right? Because speed to lead, and Zapier is nothing more than just a way to automate two services together so with Zapier you can send a text or a ringless voice mail or an email or whatever to the lead as it comes in and it's really really cost-effective. You can do like two or three or five thousand of these different little automations for like 30 or 40 bucks a month. So number one was you know, that's a really good gold nugget right there and it- setting it up, Zapier doesn't require any coding, you know, it's all just kind of plug and play. It's really easy to use.
Gus: Point and click.
David: Really easy. Number two, get a CRM. I am a huge huge proponent and promoter of realestateinvestor.com because I have been struggling personally with CRM's for the last 6 years and some of them are great at this, some of them are great at that, but the ones that are really good, they typically require you to go to a boot camp or hire somebody.
Gus: Podio's a beast. Podio in particular is a monster, yeah.
David: Which one?
Gus: Podio. Podio is kind of a beast, right?
David: Yeah, Podio. So I mean Gus, I'm not bragging when I say this, I'm embarrassed but like I've probably spent 25 or 30 grand making my Podio a powerhouse and I'm bouncing bro, I'm out. You know, like it's just- it's too much. Now stuff breaks and it changes and software's updated and then all of a sudden all these bells and whistles end up being anchors and it's like I don't want this anymore. I just want something simple that's designed for real estate, so number- I'm not trying to get on that tangent. Number two, get yourself a CRM. Whatever you do, do not rely on your brain cuz that's going to let you down 100% of the time and then last but not least, we covered this just recently here, but empathy and curiosity guys. You want to know the secret to sales? It's to not sell, that's it. It's the be empathetic and curious and make a friend. People want to do business with friends, they don't want to do business when they're getting sold so stop approaching your appointments as if you're the best and that your company's the only one and if they don't go with you, they're an idiot. You're not going to have success at that mindset, instead say you know, listen I want to do everything I can to help you and you know, maybe I'm new, maybe this is one of the first times but I'm real excited about this and I'm confident that I can provide, you know, a win-win solution and help you solve those problems, but I really want to know why. Why are you having these problems? Let's talk and then just listen, make a friend.
Gus: They couldn't care less about you.
David: It's not about you.
Gus: They could not care little less about your track record, about your bank account, about- they could honestly, they could not care less. It's about them, what are they going through? How can you help them solve that problem? You're not going to know unless they're willing to tell you what's really going on and you know David, I mean you talk to sellers all the time, some they've got their guard up. They might not be willing to volunteer that information you know, right off the bat, right? You got to kinda show them that you care or at least understand, at least listen to that, right? And you will be surprised what you'd be able to find out.
David: One hundred percent. Okay so Gus, before we start talking about like you know, why your company is the most amazing company that it sounds like it is, I'm sure that it is. One more quick question, you know, let's- so for somebody that's like, you know, maybe doing online leads already, right? And they're not having that much success with it or that they're maybe thinking about it, why does the whole online leadgen not suck? You had mentioned earlier like Dave, like it doesn't suck cuz like that was the first thing you- you're like hey, let's do a podcast right? And I'm like, well I don't know, online leads kinda suck and you're like they don't suck. So tell me why they don't suck, I want to know and I want everyone to listen very carefully here.
Gus: That's great. So that's number one you know, feedback I hear sometimes from real estate agents and investors, oh yeah online leads are the worst, online leads suck so- I mean I hear from my ISA's sometimes, right? Like oh man, these Facebook leads are the worst so I always want to break it down and again, this is the engineer coming through, right? Okay, why are you- what specifically are you saying when you say they suck? And it's usually one of two things. Number one, no one's picking up. I mean I'm calling and I'm calling and no one's like- I never reach anybody, these are bogus. So it goes back to what we talked about before. How many calls are you making, right? Cuz no one is- a lot- well most people are not set up for that marathon that the Facebook lead requires, right? So that's number one. Are you doing enough to get them to pick up the phone and respond to you? Are you texting them as well so they can respond any which way they want? Okay, that's my answer to the first one. Are you calling them enough times? Are you giving them enough opportunities. Again, this is the fall of 2020, I'm busy. There's a pandemic going on, there's a potential recession happening, my mind is somewhere else a lot of the times. I've got people that I want to talk to that have left me three voicemails, and I want to talk to them, I just haven't had the time to do it, right? So understand that, right?
David: Time. Man, time is everything.
Gus: A hundred percent, and then the other thing is let's say you're reaching people but the second complaint is that these people are not motivated. They don't want to meet, they're not ready to go, no this is the worst thing ever. And we're talking about scripting, scripts, right? How many people are you talking to? Okay, you're talking to a good amount of people, how many appointments did you get out of that? How many signed deals? And if the conversion rate is garbage, it'd go: this might be a you problem, might not be a them problem, right? Show me your pitch, what are you saying to them, right? Cuz if you're not- if you're going for the kill too early, if you're doing most of the talking. Yeah, well no wonder they don't want to talk to you, no wonder they don't want to meet with you, no wonder they don't want to open up. Oh, no, no, no, it's too soon. That is a nice person saying that they don't want to work with you. Oh, you know what? I'm not that interested. They don't want to say that they don't want to work with you, right? People are usually more polite than that, they just won't pick up the phone the next time, they just are going to say they're too busy at the moment. They're just going to ghost you. That's the nice way of saying you kind of suck at what you're doing, so understand that part of it. So I would say it's usually one of those two things David. How to stop leads from sucking is are you calling them enough? And when you're talking to them, are you saying the right things? If you're doing both of those things, then let's have a conversation about your ads and your creative, everything else but first off is those two things. Are you calling them enough times? And when you're actually talking to them, are you even saying the right things?
David: Man, I'm taking notes over here, this is- guys, you have heard me podcast time and time again. This has been one of my favorite shows of 2020, truly and I'm not just saying that to blow smoke Gus. Everything you've said, I agree with which is rare. I usually disagree with a lot of things, right? Everything you've said in the last 45 minutes, I 100% agree with it and you have a way of saying things that makes it simple and just easy to understand so again Gus I really appreciate you coming on today. I'm grateful for you, your time, your knowledge, your educational- everything, just all of the things that you have been provided- providing us and me and it's- and you know, I'm not going to say I don't learn new things on every episode, I do but I've learned a lot on this one and it's been- also been very reinforcing. So I'm not doing any online ads but after we end this show, we're going to talk about how I can get started with working with you and your team. So Gus definitely has an awesome service. Gus, tell us a little bit about the service. I know that it's PowerISA, that was the company name here but you had sent over a website as well, getspeedthelead. What is the website? Is it powerisa.com or getspeedthelead or what- where is it at?
Gus: It's actually- it can get a little confusing, it's actually both. So powerisa.com is our company website, it's more geared towards people that want to hire like a full-time or a part-time telemarketer so that's more of our dedicated like, you know, team. You want to hire a virtual team made to do like a massive amount of calling for you. That's one of our services.
Gus: getspeedthelead.com is our pay per lead service. It's like hey I'm only- Gus, I don't need a full time person, I'm only generating 20, 30, 50, maybe 100 leads a month and I need someone to call them, I need some people to make those calls, make those 10, 15, 20, 30 calls and that's not gonna be me but I don't have the budget or my company's not mature enough to hire a full-time or even a part-time person and it makes more sense for me to pay per lead. That's what that is, it's our pay-per-lead service. So depending on where you are on your journey, if you're just getting started, you've already got enough leads coming in, you're not tending to them, you're not following that follow up sequence, get some help. Have someone help you out with that and put it into that system so that's what that is. So just depending on where you are in that journey, it can be a pay per lead kind of service for motivated sellers or it can be a dedicated ISA cold calling, prospecting, following up, setting appointment for you.
David: Wow, I love it. So guys, Gus has been ultra grateful. He has hooked us up, right? And basically you can go check out powerisa.com. You can go getspeedthelead.com and you can learn and see about all of his services. However, Gus has given us a special link and it's going to be in the description of this show. So regardless of where you're seeing it on YouTube or if you're listening to it on a podcasting platform, you can just pull up the show notes and there's a link in here and this lead is- this link is going to actually give you 20% off of your pay per lead service or 10% off of a full-time cold caller. Guys, that is a big deal. I mean that adds up, you're talking 10% off of a full-time person. I mean, you know, basically every tenth week is free like come on that's massive, right? And 20% off of the pay per lead service. I'll be honest, I was actually trying to get this lead or this link for me to join and I'm like hey, can we use this with all the listeners and the viewers? And he was like eh, okay fine, so we talked him into it and I appreciate you hooking us up with that discount Gus so thank you. So guys check it out, there will be a link below the video or in the show notes. I don't get anything from this link other than me getting a discount when I go to sign up so it's not a link like that. This is a link for you guys to save a few bucks or it could be hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars depending on how much usage you're going to- you're wanting. So again, go check out Gus, his two companies: its powerisa.com, it's getspeedthelead.com and then if you decide that you want to move forward with those, use the link that's attached to the podcast or the video here cuz it's going to save you guys some money. Gus, thank you so much for coming on. Like I said man, I'm impressed. I really- we're gonna have to do this again because it's rare that I resonate with everything that the guests of my show say. It's rare that I agree with everything that they say and it's even more rare that I'm like saying all right, let's slow down and just re-emphasize what you just said because there's a lot of value there and I did all three of those with you. So man, I am honored to get to meet you, it's been a pleasure. I'm grateful for your time and when we wrap this episode up, let's stick around for a few and let's talk about how we can- we can work together because I am not doing online ads right now and I know I should be and I'm pretty confident that you're going to be able to point me in the right direction but also start helping me close these deals by setting appointments and you know, 14 follow-ups, is that a standard thing that you guys are doing?
Gus: Oh yeah, absolutely. Our shortest plan is 14 touches.
David: Yeah, absolutely. I mean even my team- the shortest guys, the shortest. Even my team, I mean I beat this into the ground, follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up you know and like every deal that we do, when you go back in the system and you look at all the touches, there's at least 14 in there. There is, it just is, right? But whenever we don't do a deal and I'm like looking at all these leads that we mark dead for whatever reason or just kind of fell through the cracks, that's the problem. It's that we're not following up enough, so the fact that you guys lead with that like that's the business, following up and everything else that comes along with it, like there's no reason that you're not going to have success with that mindset and that's what I love. So Gus, thank you for coming on the show. I'm grateful for your time. It's been an honor to spend some time with you and of course to meet with you and again, guys you listen to my show, it's rare that I say stick around after the show because I want to talk to you and I want to actually get moving. So, that's what we're going to do. Guys, thanks for listening. Gus, any departing words for us here today?
Gus: All right. Just thanks for the opportunity David and you know, I think the reason I think we clicked and we have a lot in common cuz you're a practitioner. You're doing this, you know it works.
David: I'm not a guru, I'm a practitioner guys.
Gus: It's hard for someone to come in and tell you oh this is the next best thing and you're like well, I've never seen that work ever. Like that's not the right way [inaudible].
David: Well I just get told that everyday. You do too, right? You're always getting sold and you're not selling. You're basically saying if you're not doing this, you're leaving money on the table and it's like I can't disagree with that. Just like I was talking about, you're not selling but you're providing value and it's like that's what people want, they want value, they don't want to be sold. So Gus, I love it. Thank you for your time. Guys, if you decide that you want to move forward like I am, so I'm telling you right now that I'm going to be working with Gus here in the next week or two no matter what, right? If you want to move forward, take Gus up on his offer. The only way you can do that is by clicking the link that's in the description or the show notes or whatever it is and that's just Gus you know, just hooking us up. So Gus thanks again, I'm looking forward to working with you. Guys, signing off. We'll see you next time.
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