Real Estate Podcast

Episode 38: Tax Liens with Ted Thomas

brrrr method david dodge discount property investor michael slane podcast real estate 101 real estate coaching real estate investing real estate investor real estate tips wholesaling wholesaling real estate Sep 21, 2022

Show Notes

Today we talk Tax Liens with Ted Thomas!  Dave is joined by the GURU of Tax Lien investing.  This is an area we are not experienced with and love learning from other experts.  Ted has a wealth of experience and knowledge on tax liens. Check out how you can invest in Tax Liens as well as purchase properties for what is owed on the taxes and start investing in properties for pennies on the dollar or investing in liens and make an awesome high yield interest rate on your passive investment!   For more info on how you can learn to do this in your own backyard or even anywhere in the country check out Ted's Courses here:

Episode Transcripts

David: Alright, welcome back discount property investors, thanks for joining us. I just want to remind everybody; check out the, as well as the Discount Property Investor university, we have tons of awesome courses that we have been working on for the last 6 months; building our courses on wholesaling, rehabbing, land-lording. We offer coaching; we have a new class... a new course on there about trusts.

Today we are joined by an awesome... I am super excited, special guest; Mr. Ted Thomas. Ted is... an expert to say the least on tax Liens, tax sales and tax certificates and everything that has to do with tax and tax auctions. This is actually one of the products we do not have in our Discount Property Investor University. So I am thrilled to introduce Mr. Ted Thomas. Hey Ted!

Ted: Thank you, I am glad to be here.

David: Cool! Thanks for... we are glad to have ya, thanks for coming on. So you are the authority in tax certificates and auctions and sales... I am super excited to chat with you here for a little bit today.

So tell me a little bit about what you have been doing for the last... well long time?

Ted: 25 years. Tax Liens and tax deeds are subject a lot of people don't know about; but we will finish ten minutes and you audience will be really up to speed and understand it completely.

David: Perfect.

Ted: So to start with; every property in the United States has a tax on it, so we call that the property tax. It doesn’t matter if you live in California or Missouri, Boston or Philadelphia or wherever you might be, every property has a tax. Unfortunately for the government, everybody doesn’t pay their tax bill. So that turns out with 100 million properties in the United States, about 2 or 3% of the people don’t pay the tax. Now when they don’t pay the tax that gives the government a short fall, because all of the local governments pay for the schools, the fire department, the police department and the hospitals with tax money. In other words... so about half of the States they offer a piece of paper; it is just a simple piece of paper like what would come out of your computer printer. That is called a tax certificate. Half of the States issue those, then the other half of the States they actually if you don’t pay your tax; they will confiscate your property and resell it for the back taxes.

So... an investor or a fixer upper guy or a person that is just an investor or whatever they might be; can buy these properties at tax defaulted auctions for starting bid, just the back taxes. So just imagine you are buying a property for just the back taxes and it doesn’t have a mortgage.

David: So just let me interrupt real quick, interrupt you for just a second here, Ted. So you are saying that if there is a property that has a mortgage on it, then they don’t pay their taxes; let’s say for some reason the mortgage isn’t escrowed... and then they don't pay their taxes, that tax... is the first lien, it is bumped up to the front?

Ted: Right, it is always the first lien on the property because that was issued the day they made the sub division... they gave the sub division a number... every lot gets a number, that's the tax number.

David: Got it.

Ted: So that's the first tax on every property. It is the head of the IRS.

David: The head of the IRS, holy cow!

Ted: It's an absolute [00:04:11.29 - inaudible] in the property. So if you have a lien on that property, either the bank is going to pay it or it is going to go to auction and that's what happens.

David: And when it goes to auction and someone like me or you pays it, everything else just gets wiped away?

Ted: Wiped away. They can't see it because we are on a podcast, but I am actually holding up a brochure for an auction that is going to take place next week in New York State, okay? This particular auction has 330 properties, all of those properties have no mortgage and the starting bid is approximately back taxes.

David: Holy cow, that's awesome!

Ted: It's a whole new world for fixer upper people. Because now you can buy a property for the back taxes.

David: Just for the taxes.

Ted: 50 cents, 70 cents.

David: Yeah that's crazy. So as a wholesaler in St Louis, when we go out and pick up properties, our goal is to pick them at around 70, 75 cents on the dollar, we can then sell them to our investors at maybe 80 cents or 82 cents to the dollar, we are just making that little spread. In some properties in good areas we may pay 85-90 cents and make a penny or two. In other areas we can get them at 50cents on the dollar. What would you say that... the average you are picking these things up at?

Ted: I am going to surprise you because you are going to become my new best friend. What I buy them for... like the last bunch I bought, I bought 7 and the highest I paid was 30cents on the dollar and the lowest I paid was 17 cents on the dollar.

David: What! That is crazy!

Ted: Yeah, and I can show you thousands of these. In the United States and most people don’t know this; there is 5000 tax auctions every year, that's a 100 a week and the average guy doesn’t know anything about it.

David: 500 a year!

Ted: Absolutely. I am looking at my desk here and I don’t have one. If I showed you the auction list for Los Angeles, it would be 3 inches thick. It's bigger than the St Louis phone book.

David: No way! A 100 a day?

Ted: A 100 a days in every... every single county. There are 3143 counties. Every county has a tax auction every year. Now Texas... in fact we have a group in Texas, we have 9 couples in Texas; right in Dallas and [00:06:27.16 - inaudible] county right now, because the first Tuesday of the month they have the auction in Texas. There is 250 auctions today just in Texas.

David: Just in Texas? 250 today?

Ted: Today. The day we are talking.

David: So you are saying these auctions, they are not like... so in St Louis I know that there... in the city there are like 6 days a year where they do the auctions. In the county, it is every single day? So is that more of the norm?

Ted: No, it is different in every State. You see what happened is the United States started out with the colonies in the east. They started up and they had States and [00:07:06.13 - inaudible] and townships and so on. Then as the population moved west and they kept stealing from the Indians; as they did that, those States came into their own right so... all the States have their own rules. So what you really have to do when you learn this is you have to learn your State where you are. But I teach people how to buy this online. I teach the class what I am going to show you about today; I teach the class in Singapore, I teach it in Bangkok, I teach it in Australia. I can teach people how to do this online. We actually buy properties online and resell them online.

David: So you buy properties that you don’t even see?

Ted: Nowadays you can see them with satellites, not just GOOGLE. Now they have what they call the GIS mapping system. It is a satellite way up there, 30,000 and it comes down, and you can tell there is a geranium on the front porch.

David: Holy cow! That's crazy.

Ted: Absolutely. But anyway there are thousands, so there are 2 things that happen. About half of the States sell a tax lien certificate. These are really sexy, so people that are older than yourself and older than your fixer upper guys... grey haired types like me; they like the tax liens because they are very conservative. So let me get you to understand that first...

David: So there are two types, let me just reiterate. Two types here and we are talking about the tax liens certificates, that's the first one?

Ted: Yeah, let’s do that one, that's the sexy one. So let's say you bought a tax lien certificate in Florida. That certificate means what you did is pay someone else’s tax. So that means the State was very benevolent, they just sold the certificate, you just bought a piece of paper, that's all you bought. 98% of those people who come in and pay their certificate, they come in and pay for it. But if they don’t come in and pay for it; then you have bought a certificate, you now get the house.

David: Alright, say that again, my mind is blown.

Ted: Nobody believes it.

David: Alright say this one more time.

Ted: You got to the auction, you raise your hand up in the air, you bid on that certificate. They give you the certificate; it's just a piece of paper like what comes out of your computer.

David: Okay.

Ted: You take it home...

David: You have to pay cash for it?

Ted: You pay cash, you have to pay cash.

David: Okay you pay cash, but you are pitting it like you just said, 10, 20 [00:09:14.04 - inaudible]

Ted: No, less than that. You care getting it for the back taxes.

David: Oh just for the back taxes? Couple of grand?

Ted: 1500, you could buy a tax certificate for 50 bucks.

David: Holy cow, okay. So you get this tax certificate, okay? Then what happens again?

Ted: Well nothing happens, all you do is take the certificate home and you sit on your rusty dusty. It is a passive investment. This is good for old ladies and stuff like that.

David: Okay so does this thing pay an interest rate then? Or...

Ted: Yeah, so what happens in Florida; the certificate pays all the way up to 18%. So let's say the taxes on the house are a thousand bucks. So you go and pay for a $1000 certificate, you pay for it. Alright, so you can’t give the money to me now, you give it to the county. You give the money to the county; you take the certificate home, so one year later the people pay the taxes. If they pay it, they have to pay you back the thousand. They always have to pay you back. Get your money back plus 18%.

David: Who do they pay their money to? Does it go to the State? Or the city or the county or whatever? Then they pay you?

Ted: Goes directly... you can’t give the money to an individual, there is no brokers involved, no attorneys involved, none of that stuff. You pay directly to the county. Now the audience can’t see it, but I am going to hold one up so you can see it because we are live. I am holding up a newspaper, the newspaper has 150 pages in it and also a list of tax liens, it’s all liens. This is Tampa Florida; there are 40,000 tax certificates just in Tampa Florida.

David: Wow!

Ted: Just one county.

David: Why has no one in Tampa paid their taxes, Ted? What's going on down there?

Ted: You know, in Florida... in the month of May they issue one million certificates every year.

David: What!

Ted: One million certificates every year.

David: Every year? That's crazy, that's madness!

Ted: If people don’t pay their taxes, so anybody can go in and pay them, you can pay anybody’s taxes you want, you get a certificate, the certificate entitles you to ownership of that property.

David: Okay, so you get the certificate and I... so you say it goes up to 18%? I would imagine other areas, States, have different rates. But regardless, you get the certificate, you buy it from the county for example, then you just go home. Whenever the person who owns that property; I just want to clarify this for our listeners and our viewers here. The person that owns that property that didn't pay it because you paid it; when they get around to paying it, they then pay that, not to you... to the county, and the country reimburses you, is that how that works?

Ted: Exactly, they pay the county, you got it perfect, gave a perfect description. So you... when the people pay their taxes, then the county calls you and says... send your certificate in and we will send you the money you paid for it, plus the interest.

David: Plus the interest rate. That's awesome! So what happens if you do that exact scenario like we just spoke about. However the owner of that land or that property or that house doesn’t pay it? What happens next?

Ted: Well you are going to get the property.

David: No way! You just take it over?

Ted: Listen, you can go to the State of Iowa which is right up the street from you.

David: It is.

Ted: I know it is, I go to auctions all over the country, I know this country like the back of my hand. So I will to [00:12:30.03 - inaudible] and I will buy a certificate, I take that certificate home, and [00:12:33.18 - inaudible] certificate pays 24%.

David: Holy cow! What is the redemption period on these things?

Ted: They are all different, every State is different...

David: Sure.

Ted: ... if you buy in [00:12:46.23 - inaudible] you have all year to pay it. Any month you come in and pay in [00:12:50.29 - inaudible] for example; you are going to earn 2% for every month that the certificate was unpaid. Now think about this; you bought a certificate today, every single month they don’t pay you they owe you 2% more! Now if you go to the bank you get 1% on your money.

David: Annually! Holy cow that is crazy!

Ted: Yeah, now in Texas; in Texas if you buy a certificate in Texas, like I told you I have a class in Texas today.

David: Uh huh.

Ted: If they buy the certificate, they have to pay the county, so give the county cash, the county gives them the certificate... that certificate earns 25% on any day that they come in to pay, so if they...

David: So if they own it for one day...?

Ted: One day! You get 25%.

David: Holy cow! So the city is the one that is actually collecting that interest rate too? The county I mean. The county is actually one the one collecting that interest rate from the landowner, right? So...

Ted: You have no collection; you just go home and sit on your rusty dusty.

David: So you are actually kind of hoping that they don’t pay you? Then you get the property and then you can sell it?

Ted: Well actually what you do is you put your hands together, you get on your knees next to your bed and start praying they don’t pay. That's what you do!

David: Man, I love it! Alright so that’s motto one or should I say type one. So it is the tax liens certificate; Ted, I am learning a ton, thank you again for joining me on the show today, this is awesome!

Ted: This is powerful.

David: This is powerful, man! I love your excitement, your enthusiasm, this is great. Okay so options one we have the tax liens certificate, what is the other option? I am assuming there is only two?

Ted: There is only two, there are some little hybrids in there, but once you learn one and two you are okay. So number two... if you are in a State which we are going to call a tax defaulted auction State...

David: How many... let me interrupt you for one second. How many of the States are which...?

Ted: It's not exactly balanced, it leans more towards the one we are going to talk about now. About 60% of the States sell tax defaulted property.

David: Tax defaulted property, I am getting it right, okay.

Ted: That means you didn't pay the tax, they will send you notice, and notice and notice. Those are registered letters, we call that due process. They keep sending you those letters, if you don’t react and pay the tax, then what they do is the local government, the county now confiscates that property. In other words they seize the property.

David: They take it, so... little bit more than half the States, that’s how it works?

Ted: Exactly.

David: So the county comes in and they just take it. That's probably after two or three years right? Of them sending you these notices or...?

Ted: In Texas it is 180 days.

David: Holy cow that's nothing, man.

Ted: It's nothing.

David: That's nothing.

Ted: Most States it's 18 months to 2 years.

David: Got it, okay. So they come in... you don’t pay your taxes, they have sent you multiple notices... say hey get your rear in gear and... you don't or they don’t let's say. Then the county just takes it? Then what? What happens next?

Ted: So no the county, they don’t want any more property, that is the last thing they want is property.

David: Well they are not collecting taxes on property they own.

Ted: Exactly.

David: How are they going to fund the fire department and the education and all those things that those taxes go to?

Ted: Right so... now they can't pay their bill or county employees. So what they say is we are going to have an auction. What I am holding up now; your audience can’t see it. This is just a brochure; I think this one has 30 or 40 pages let me look. Yeah... 35 pages and it is just a listing of tax defaulted properties in the county of New York, just a listing of them. Shows me a picture, shows me all about the property, tells me what the value is, tells me what school district it is. Now that is just one auction I am going to next week. This particular one I’m holding has... this one county has 313 properties to sell.

David: One county 313... now these are already all taken back?

Ted: County owns the property. The county is going to have an auction...

David: Holy cow! And they are going to do all of those in one day?

Ted: Actually it will take them two days.

David: I was going to say, that's a ton of properties, man. Holy cow.

Ted: Yeah yeah. This is a small auction. You got to Los Angelis; one of the wealthiest counties in the United States, they will have 1500 to 2000 properties and they auction them off all in one day. Now listen and see if the microphone will pick this up. I am snapping my fingers, can you hear my fingers snapping.

David: Hold them closer to your mouth and I will hear it.

Ted: Can you hear it now?

David: I can hear it now, yep.

Ted: That's how fast it is to sell a property.

David: That quick? So there has to be multiple auctioneers at those auctions then?

Ted: Nope just one in L.A. He goes so fast you can't believe it.

David: That makes my head spin just thinking about it. That's crazy.

Ted: The beauty of it is when you learn this, you learn what to do when they don’t sell them. They never sell every property by the way.

David: Right.

Ted: They will never get them all done.

David: Of course.

Ted: There is always left overs. We even teach people how to buy the left overs.

David: That's awesome.

Ted: So those properties, the starting bid generally is the back taxes. So a property that was coming up for auction will have the back taxes and some interest added to it, some hand slapping penalties and what have you. But that's where it starts, so that’s usually going to be somewhere around 3-10 cents on the dollar.

David: Man, that's nothing!

Ted: With no mortgage.

David: So the mortgage is wiped clean?

Ted: Wiped out.

David: And you just pay between 3 and 10 maybe 12 cents, somewhere in that range.

Ted: But you know what? There are gonna be some savvy guys like you show up.

David: I am going to be at the next one that's for sure.

Ted: You go wait a minute, that one needs a roof and a kitchen, it needs this; so how quick... we are going to buy it for something like 20 cents. You can buy it for 10, you can buy it for 20, you can go fix it up, then you are going to put it out on the market for 50 or 60 cents on the dollar, which is where everybody else is buying them. You can sell them to the fixer upper guys.

David: I love it, man. I love it. So let me just ask you one quick question, Ted. This is something... I think I know but I want you to clarify, because again; you are the authority on this. You know this, you have been doing this forever, you are the guy here. So whenever you go to type two where the county takes the property already. The county essentially owns it at this point. They auction it off for the taxes. The bids; they get bid up for a dollar amount. So if it starts at 5 grand, then 8, 12 15 and then it sells at 19 or whatever. But with option one it doesn’t work that way, it's a little different, right? So options one... correct me if I am wrong, but I have read a couple of books on the topic and I just want to make sure that my information is correct. But on option one where you are just buying the certificate; it is actually a little bit different in the way that the auction happens. Because the county wants their money regardless. So you have to pay that, but then what you are actually bidding on is the interest rate, is that right? Did I get that right?

Ted: Right. You are absolutely right, you got it nailed down. The first one is tax lien certificates, that's just an investment in a certificate.

David: Got it, okay.

Ted: In other words it would be like buying a mortgage or something like that.

David: You are buying paper, it's a little more hands off.

Ted: Hands off, that's for conservative investors. Now the other side of it is for the entrepreneurial and fixer upper guys... what they basically want to do...

David: They want the property.

Ted: ... because they are going to go in there and knock down a wall, they are going to fix some windows...

David: They want the property, got it.

Ted: They want the property.

David: Got it, got it. So on the first one real quick; whenever you are bidding on the interest rate, it is actually the inverse to option two. Option two you are bidding with money and that money goes up. Each bid is a higher bid. But on the first side though you are bidding on the interest rate and essentially you are bidding... each bid makes the rate lower, is that right?

Ted: Yeah.

David: So if it started at 23 and you come in and say, Dave I will... I will do it for 21. I come in and say 20, and you say alright final number 19. I say take it. That would be the rate, right?

Ted: Right, that is one method. There are a lot of methods, but you got the two basic ones that are important.

David: Got it.

Ted: If someone goes to class we teach them all the different ones because... certainly Missouri is going to be different from Florida, and Florida is going to be different than New York, and New York is going to be different from Seattle and whatever. We actually teach it for the entire United States. So... essentially you got the process and any listener now understands that this could be quite a business either way.

David: Ted, this is great. Well we have listeners all over the U.S, and even outside of the US like you were just mentioning. With every State being a little different... where would the listeners go to learn how to do this themselves, Ted?

Ted: I have got a site, If they put a slash on there we will send them a special bonus. Put, there is a nice little course there they can take 3 free videos and give them all the details, and it will tell them... they don’t have to spend any money, just go and look at those 3 videos and they will get even more education than they are getting right now. Because what I do is I explain how people from other parts of the country do it. So they can do that, anybody that wants to do that just go

David: Awesome. So the forward slash discount property investor will give them a little bonus, a little discount?

Ted: Not only will they get a discount, they will get a bonus booklet sent out to them right away, which is a consumer’s guide, a 25 page guide, tells people how to do it in all the States.

David: No way, so you have built out a... a course or a system that lays it out no matter where you are at in the country? Shows you how to do it, or even out of the country, holy cow.

Ted: I teach people... I have... if they go to that website; they will actually... this is surprising. They will see people making six figure incomes that live in Canada and never come to the United States.

David: Holy cow! So you are saying I don’t even need to invest in my backyard with this system? I could be buying properties in Miami or Phoenix or New Orleans or whatever, right?

Ted: You can buy anywhere in the United States. The only prerequisite is that you have the money to pay. They don’t care... I teach this class in Mexico City.

David: Holy cow! So they are not buying those liens in Mexico though? They are buying them in the United States?

Ted: It is only 2 hours up to Houston, so they go to the sale in Houston. Now Houston is having a sale today. I am not at the sale but I can guarantee you... because I have followed that sale for 20 years, there will be at least 20 properties in Houston that they will auction off today. Not 20, 200.

David: 200!

Ted: 200.

David: Today?

Ted: Today.

David: How often do they have those sales in Houston?

Ted: Texas does... the first Tuesday of the month, every month.

David: So 12 times a year?

Ted: Yeah.

David: Damn, this is awesome.

Ted: Some places do it once a year, some places do it... in Orlando they do an auction every 2 weeks.

David: Every 2 weeks. So every area is a little different. Let me ask you this, Ted. You know this because you hve been doing it forever, somebody like me, I have read a book or two on the topic, I know a little bit about it, but not enough to really get my feet wet. So if I go to, then we can get the little bonus with the forward slash Discount Property Investor. You can teach us how to do all this stuff on there, right? You have some courses...

Ted: They can go from A to Z on this and we even... for people who even… you know... people your age, entrepreneurs who are going to go after it, some people who are older and kind of conservative, they say well gee Ted can you take us to an auction? We actually take people on auction tours... well the instructor doesn’t bid against them, but we have 9 people in Texas today, next week we will have 8 people in New York state buying in New York state. So we do this all over the country and we do seminars... we do everything possible on this business and we have done it for well over 20 years.

David: Man, this is awesome. Holy cow! So I am on the site right now and I am looking, you have got all kinds of stuff on here. You have a couple of different options for things. Like you said, some free videos. I am ready to jump in.

Ted: If they miss the videos they really miss something because they can actually see me as a reporter interviewing me and... from time to time we cut from that and go right to a video and see someone doing it.

David: Someone buying it at the auction?

Ted: We can’t video the auction; the State won’t let us do that. But we can interview the person as soon as they get out.

David: As soon as they get out. Holy cow this is awesome! Wow!

Ted: The State's won’t let us in the room. As soon as they see a camera they panic. They think you are 60 minutes or something.

David: Well what I really like about this, Ted; is that you have two different options. You have... the more of the passive side where you can buy the certificates. And if you are not looking to rip down walls and rehab houses and you just want to make an amazing interest rate... because like we both said; the bank is only going to give you 1 maybe 1.5%, it is embarrassing after inflation you are losing money.

Ted: Right.

David: The other option is... let's say I want to rehab houses, I am into that. I can actually go buy the property, so it gives you a lot of flexibility on what you can invest in and... the interest rates are unheard of! I am not making 18/20/23% in the stock market. I am lucky to make 7.

Ted: Exactly. So every State has a little bit of a different rule and it's amazing... I have a friend call me from Oklahoma City last weekend, today is Tuesday so he called me on Saturday. I said, what are you doing in Oklahoma City? He said, you know Ted... the auction is this week. I said, oh I forgot all about it. He said, well. I said, alright tell me about it. He said, well I am working 2 auctions this weekend. I said which 2? He said, Tulsa and Oklahoma City. I said, how many properties are they selling? Now in Oklahoma they sell the property, so we call that a tax defaulted property.

David: So that is the actual property in Oklahoma.

Ted: Actual property.

David: Okay.

Ted: So he is at both of those auctions. They had over 1500 properties for him to choose from this weekend.

David: Man, that is a lot of people not paying their taxes.

Ted: Well you know... the politicians want you to think the economy is good, but I am telling you; every year... you see this round number... 100 million houses, 2 to 3 % go to auction every year.

David: So that is 2 to 3 million. Holy cow!

Ted: Every year. I have been doing this for decades. I could show you a history of way back when...

David: 2 to 3%!

Ted: 2 to 3%.

David: That is a big number when you are thinking about the whole country. Holy cow.

Ted: Next time we do an interview, we will plan it a little better and we will bring it up on video. Your podcast guys can still listen to it. We will pull up an auction list, and you can see the auction list and you are going to have a heart attack. Because you are going to see properties sold for back tax and you will look it and see the picture, and say, Ted... that one needs paint, new windows and a new roof and it is ready to go. I will say, well looks like the value according to the tax collector, not me; the tax collector says it worth 200,000 starting at 35 grand.

David: Man I will buy 30 of those... today!

Ted: Of course you are.

David: That is amazing!

Ted: We can show you step by step of how to do that. So next time we do an interview... I will let you guys go watch the..

David: Ted, I am going to educate myself on this. I am going to jump in and take this course right now. Maybe we can connect back here in a couple of weeks. By then I will have a lot more information about this, and hopefully I can give you some updates on... some of the taxes, tax sales certificates I have purchased since this interview. That would be pretty cool don’t you think?

Ted: Right, absolutely.

David: Awesome. Well Ted thank you so much for coming on the show today. I know I have learned a ton, I know our listeners and our viewers are going to get a ton of value out of the... the program you have put together to teach people. Not even locally, they can be anywhere in the world! You can buy in any State which is crazy, because me as a wholesaler in St Louis; I’m limited to like 30 or 40 miles because I am too lazy to want to drive 50 or 60 miles to go buy a property. But if I can do it from my computer or my phone or my laptop, anywhere in the world; it is a game changed, this is a game changer. So I am going to jump right in. One more time lets drop out that website to where they can get the special bonus. That is going to give them a bonus.

Ted: A special bonus, yes.

David: A special bonus, awesome.

Ted: Next time we talk I am going to get a black T shirt and a grey hat and one of those big microphones so I look like I am on ESPN.

David: That's right. Ted you look damn good man, you don’t need to do anything else. You keep it up, you are looking good and healthy I like it. Alright Ted that’s a show man, that’s a wrap. We are going to wrap it up. Ted thanks again for coming on, we really appreciate it. Let's try to reconnect here in a couple of weeks. I am going to jump into this course either today and tomorrow, and just try to take up as much knowledge as possible. One final question to close the show. After I take the course, I learn how this works and I start purchasing the certificates and... the properties. This is something I could hire someone to do in my office that I could just say, your job solely is just to do the tax side of this, while I continue to do the wholesale side of the business. Essentially that is something I could teach someone else to, right?

Ted: Exactly. You can't see the video we are on, and podcast people can’t see. But the young lady that put this together, her name is Ashley and at the last Auction... in fact have a little fun, call her on the phone and ask her what happened at the last auction. She will tell you about the bidding, I just stand behind her and she does the bidding for me.

David: I love it. That is so great.

Ted: All you got to do is have the money in the bank.

David: I got some money in the bank. This sounds great. Well Ted, thanks again, much appreciated, it was a pleasure having you on the show. Guys check it out, It has got a ton of information on there, some free videos and a couple of different options for some courses and coaching that Ted offers. That is a wrap we are signing off. Ted until next time my friend. We will see you soon. Thanks Ted, bye-bye now.

Ted: Okay, bye.

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